Manic Puppy!

[Karma]

Yup - agree with JennyBee....

The trainers at our dog club now suggest letting the dog win most of the time, as it makes it more fun for the dog!!!
Tug does need to be controlled (We can get Honey to stop and wait for a command to continue playing), but it should be fun - losing all the time is no fun at all!!!    We tend to play a tug/retrieve type game as well - we'll play tug for a bit, then I ask her to "Give", I throw it, she brings it back, and we start up tug again!

Honey is a nightmare for not giving up tennis balls though... and it is definately better not to force the issue.  She will now hand them over as long as she feels she's in a safe environment, but won't if there is another dog around.  I always have 2 balls (for agility lesson I have 3-4) and once she has one ball, all my interest is on the ball I have... if she's not interested in it, I make it more interesting (throwing it up and catching, bouncing it) - eventually she decides that the one I've got it where it's at and abandons the one she has!!! 

[JennyBee]

I always find with Brodie that when she does 'win', she immediately brings the toy back to me so she can keep on playing . She also knows to 'leave it' when I tell her too. It's her favourite game in the whole world and I don't know how I'd have survived the puppy stage without it

[Karma]

Yup - Honey does a little victory lap then pushes it back in our hand!!!   

[Sheepscheeks]

Like Honey, Freddie loves tug/chew/attack and when he lets go (which he does eventually if I stop interacting with him) I throw the toy for him to bring back. If I don't throw it when he lets go he just brings it back on to my lap. He rarely plays with toys on his own (except his nylabone but even then he prefers some-one else to be in the room while he is chewing it). When I go to work I put toys in the kitchen and they are in exactly the same place when I come home. The only thing he's interested in when alone is a nice stuffed kong or a treat in a screwed up envelope or two inside a box or toilet roll so I have to keep saving loads of boxes etc!!! Another game he likes is find the sausage (even though we don't use sausage any more). I wrap some pieces of cooked chicken inside two old towels for him to get out - he is very good at it now but still enjoys it!

[JaspersMum]

Nothing much to add to what the others have said but sympathy as Charlie has periods of being the devil, the others were never as bad and I don't think that's forgetting what they were either...

As you have the logistics problem with a cooling off place, don't know whether you have space for a puppy pen somewhere(assuming that you don't want his crate to seem like punishment).  I've found that if Charlie gets too hyper or annoying the others (dogs & cat) keeping a collar and long-line on him, I can guide him back to his pen(or another room)for a while until he calms down, really works for us.  I'm not sure dogs can show remorse, but he comes back out a different dog and gradually the need to take him out is lessening - the look is enough.

I picked up a pen at a reasonable price on ebay, might be worth a try 

[PennyB]

I find when they have their manic period (its often roughly the same time each day) I will stand back and let them get some of it out their system (I keep an eye on them though) - I now have 2 happy puppies (both my new foster girls age 10 weeks) who are fast asleep.

[blueroanlover]

Cheers everyone thank you so much for your replies.

We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.

As for letting him run the manic phase off, it's not that he is running wild round the room, it's the fact that he is biting hell out of us all the time, incessantly; so much so that we cannot touch him, he won't listen to NO, and in the end we get so bitten that we have to carry him out to the crate and let him cool off there for a while. He usually then goes to sleep but when he comes out, it's back to the same biting situation.

We are wondering now about consulting a behaviourist to tell us where we are going wrong!

[JaspersMum]

We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.

Charlie only needs to be there a few minutes - doesn't need to be long, maybe 10 mins max

[blueroanlover]

We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.

Charlie only needs to be there a few minutes - doesn't need to be long, maybe 10 mins max

You find he calms down then do you? Do you also have a crate?

[millyann]

One thing we have found really great for using up excess energy is to feed the puppy his meals in a pyramid. It takes 10 or 15 minutes really hard work for the puppy to get the kibble out, batting the pyramid with his paws and chasing it around. It makes a lot of noise on the wooden floor with the puppy barking at it but we think it has really helped.   

[blueroanlover]

thanks for that, I will look out for one!

I have not seen him as bad as he is today - this is definitely the worst for sharp, sustained biting and manic behaviour no matter what toy I try and play with  with him.

[JaspersMum]

We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.

Charlie only needs to be there a few minutes - doesn't need to be long, maybe 10 mins max

You find he calms down then do you? Do you also have a crate?

He doesn't use the crate much now (he's 8 months old and the only time the  crates used is at shows - where despite all the noise and activity, he's as good as gold)

He's most likely to be put behind the baby gate in the conservatory and we remove ourselves from him..

I have not seen him as bad as he is today - this is definitely the worst for sharp, sustained biting and manic behaviour no matter what toy I try and play with  with him.

Just a thought, what does he do if you stop playing with him and walk awy (totally ignore him) when he gets too much... Is he attention seeking and the more toys you bring out to play with, the more buzzed up he gets 

[blueroanlover]

Just a thought, what does he do if you stop playing with him and walk awy (totally ignore him) when he gets too much... Is he attention seeking and the more toys you bring out to play with, the more buzzed up he gets 
[/quote]

If I stop playing and walk away he chases me and bites my legs/ankles/hangs on to trouser legs.... if I sit and ignore him, staring into space or something, he jumps up to bite my legs or arms, whatever he can get hold of.

I asked the breeder about what to do - apart from telling me to bite him back (!) and hurt him so he yelped (and therefore got the message, she said) she told me that walking away signified empowerment of the dog in that they assumed I was running away from them and they had won!   

I have actually taken his squeaky toys off him now in case the squeaking was winding him up more; i.e. resembling the cries of prey.  No difference.  The only time he can be touched, stroked or cuddled is when he is very sleepy and then he is adorable!

Absolutely exhausted.  He is in his crate now - it got too much to handle yet again. 

[JennyBee]

I asked the breeder about what to do - apart from telling me to bite him back (!) and hurt him so he yelped (and therefore got the message, she said) she told me that walking away signified empowerment of the dog in that they assumed I was running away from them and they had won!    

What total nonsense!

Do you have a houseline for him? At the first sign of him getting overexcited and mouthing, I would lead him away using a houseline for a short time out. I know it seems never-ending at the moment but he is still learning. Brodie was the same, I couldn't touch her without her biting me. If I put my hand near her and she opened her mouth, then I removed my hand and folded my arms. Keep the petting until he is tired as, as you say, that is when he is least likely to mouth. You'll have plenty of time for petting and cuddles when he's learned some control .

He has very little impulse control at the moment so maybe it might be a good idea not to play any games that could make him over-excited. Have you tried clicker training? You could try some mind based games/training so you are mentally tiring him out instead of getting him physically excited. I didn't have a clicker when Brodie was young, but the person who ran her socialisation classes showed us some simple training (sit, down etc) which involved hand signals (keep your hands out of his reach though ), which she still remembers to this day . I know how hard it is so big hugs to you x

[Helen]

ok - I've read 5 pages of this and people have offered you very very good advice (over and over again)-  I'm not sure which bits you're following or not?

It seems that it's going around in circles and I think your best bet is to find a cocker savvy behaviourist sooner rather than later....

You possibly are over stimulating him and while everyone here is offering good advice they can't see what is actually happening in your house...which is where a good behaviourist comes in   

If you post where in the country you are I'm sure we can pm you with details of behaviourists or trainers