How much exercise?

[Karma]

Burns website is simply another opinion as valid as all others I've heard. There seems a lack of real scientific evidence and that then opens itself up to people manipulating the issue for their own reasons. Could unscrupulous breeders/ blame over exercise for joint problems and could pet food manufacturers encourage more exercise to encourage bigger appetites. mmmm surely not 

The difficulty is, to acheive what you are talking about would mean subjecting animals to too much exercise to monitor what the effects were - would any animal lover really want that? 
And what about unscrupulous vets saying there's no risk so that they can charge extortionate fees to rectify the damage later in life... (I'm NOT saying any very who has questioned the 5 minute rule has done so for this reason, just pointing out that everyone can be shown to have an agenda, and personally I'd rather err on the side of caution especially in a situation where there is absolutely no down-side to limiting exercise...)

It seems to me to make sense that juvenile bones aren't going to stand up to the same treatment as adult bones... the 5 minute rule is, to my mind, a sensible and easy framework to ensure people don't do too much. 

Well, I for one am not prepared to take the risk. My 3 month old pup is getting a 15 min walk 2-3 times a day. If it happens to stretch to 20mins, I'm not going to beat myself up over it, but I won't be making a habit of it. I will take lots of care till he is a year old, for me the risk just is not worth it.

That just about sums the situation up for me... why take the risk?

[Jane S]

There seems a lack of real scientific evidence and that then opens itself up to people manipulating the issue for their own reasons. Could unscrupulous breeders/ blame over exercise for joint problems ..

Interestingly over-exercise or too much of the wrong kind of exercise is thought to be one of the factors contributing to the development of HD in dogs genetically predisposed to this condition so any breeder pointing this out would not be unscrupulous but simply stating what's already known (any number of veterinary sites refer to this so I won't bother listing them here)

[mark1]

There seems a lack of real scientific evidence and that then opens itself up to people manipulating the issue for their own reasons. Could unscrupulous breeders/ blame over exercise for joint problems ..

Interestingly over-exercise or too much of the wrong kind of exercise is thought to be one of the factors contributing to the development of HD in dogs genetically predisposed to this condition so any breeder pointing this out would not be unscrupulous but simply stating what's already known (any number of veterinary sites refer to this so I won't bother listing them here)

You misunderstand me slightly, what I mean by unscrupulous breeders are breeders who continue to use affected dogs and then blame over exercise for the problem when in fact genetics is the major contributing factor. Most of the science points to breeding issues and nutrition with some mention of exercise. I am not against the five minute rule and think it's sensible generally, but I do feel it is used to cloud bigger issues surrounding pedigree dogs. However that's probably for a different thread and I'll probably get this discussion closed if I continue, I seem to have that effect 

[Jane S]

There seems a lack of real scientific evidence and that then opens itself up to people manipulating the issue for their own reasons. Could unscrupulous breeders/ blame over exercise for joint problems ..

Interestingly over-exercise or too much of the wrong kind of exercise is thought to be one of the factors contributing to the development of HD in dogs genetically predisposed to this condition so any breeder pointing this out would not be unscrupulous but simply stating what's already known (any number of veterinary sites refer to this so I won't bother listing them here)

You misunderstand me slightly, what I mean by unscrupulous breeders are breeders who continue to use affected dogs and then blame over exercise for the problem when in fact genetics is the major contributing factor. Most of the science points to breeding issues and nutrition with some mention of exercise. I am not against the five minute rule and think it's sensible generally, but I do feel it is used to cloud bigger issues surrounding pedigree dogs. However that's probably for a different thread and I'll probably get this discussion closed if I continue, I seem to have that effect 

We all know there are unscrupulous breeders out there but it is easier than it has ever been before to check on things like health test results so puppy buyers must share the responsibility if they continue to buy from breeders who don't health test or who breed from dogs with poor test results. Anyway, we've discussed this many times before on COL so it's probably best to keep this thread on topic

[Pip895]

Whilst there is probably no scientific study backing up the 5min rule there is enough anecdotal and informed opinion backing it that I have always born it in mind.  That does not mean that I have obeyed it to the letter however.
I think you have got to apply a bit of common sense and realise that every walk will have different impacts on a pups joints. If a pup or dog is, even slightly, overweight that will increase the strain on its joints considerably.  I cant see that a 1hr puppy romp would be any less damaging than the average 1hr walk - not that I think you should avoid these types of activity - you just wouldn't do them every day.

The point about jumping is interesting - we took Saffi to the beach recently and she was very involved in my daughters crabbing exercises among the rocks and rockpools - this involved, for Saffi, a lot of climbing up what looked like nearly shear rock faces and flying leaps off and into the water.  I'm sure this was very hard on her joints but she was having such fun I couldn't bring myself to stop her.

One potentially joint damaging activity I would definitely like to stamp out, is jumping up onto the kitchen table - and jumping down again onto the tiled floor when she hears anyone coming! we have taken to tucking the chairs in and making sure we don't leave food up there, but to no avail - I think the memory of the sausage roles she found there once is just too strong!   Any ideas on how to stop a 10 month old working cocker jumping?




 

[Karma]

  I cant see that a 1hr puppy romp would be any less damaging than the average 1hr walk - not that I think you should avoid these types of activity - you just wouldn't do them every day.

But it is... there is lots of rest time, puppies often go and lie down on their own for 5 mins, and there is no distance covered.  If there are a range of puppy ages/sizes the very small ones are seperated even further, so that they are not pushed into overdoing it with bigger/older pups.... but the key thing is THEY set the pace... they are not following owners on a walk. 
I do agree with the rest of what you said, though... 

As far as jumping, you need to make it more rewarding for her not to jump up to the table... scatter treats around the floor, so she learns to start searching these out rather than looking to the table...
It's hard if she's doing it when you are not there...

[Pip895]

But it is... there is lots of rest time, puppies often go and lie down on their own for 5 mins, and there is no distance covered.  If there are a range of puppy ages/sizes the very small ones are seperated even further, so that they are not pushed into overdoing it with bigger/older pups.... but the key thing is THEY set the pace... they are not following owners on a walk. 

When you are out walking - at least when you have only one dog, don't you tend to let them set the pace anyway? - well within reason - I cant keep up with Saffi   The rest periods in the puppy play would have to be compulsory - there is no way Saffi would have taken time out from play if there were other dogs around.

As far as jumping, you need to make it more rewarding for her not to jump up to the table... scatter treats around the floor, so she learns to start searching these out rather than looking to the table...
It's hard if she's doing it when you are not there...

Its always when we're not there - she knows she is not supposed to do it - hence the hurried exits when we come into the room. Once she has jumped off can you tel her off? - This is getting a bit off topic - I should probably start another thread

[Sarafina]

Thanks for all the answers, a very interesting discussion so thanks to all of you! I would love to hear more opinions, and I also have one more question: how much do you exercise your adult cocker spaniels?

When I say "she goes crazy in the house" if not exercised more than 20 minutes or so, I mean running around / jumping up on the sofa, etc. Also, she just seems more HAPPY when she has been out for longer. I had heard about the 5-minute rule of course, but I also take advice from the veterinary, and I spoke to a woman in the Norwegian Spaniel Club (as I live here in Norway.) They both said that: this is individual, you know your dog best and just use common sense, and see how your dog reacts to it. You can try and sit down and relax for a bit, and let the dog decide the pace you walk at (sorry if my English has some faults..)
The worst thing you can do to your dog, is too little acitivity and too much "boring" time in the apartment.
PS. I dont take my dog on 1 hour walks EVERY day, but perhaps 5 times a week, the other days she gets a bit shorter walks.

When I walk my dog in the forest, I dont walk particularly fast. Still, she runs back and forwards, probably walking 2-3 times as much as I do on the same walk... This, she decides for herself. Also, when I sit down for a while, she continues to run around and looks like she doesnt need a break. I keep her off-lead most of the time, as we walk in the forest.
I also agree with those of you that say that dogs are animals, originating from the wolves. They are "built" for more active lives than we humans can offer them.
I sometimes take my dog to a friend, who lives on a farm. After playing for an hour with her dog, my pup is much more tired than after we have walked for 1 hour.

[mooching]

Sarafina

Could I just ask how much time you spend each day with her playing and training? For me, this is as important a time as actual walks, as it stimulates them mentally as well as physically.

[Sarafina]

Sarafina

Could I just ask how much time you spend each day with her playing and training? For me, this is as important a time as actual walks, as it stimulates them mentally as well as physically.

Maybe half an hour per day, altogether (or less, I have to admit, some days only 5-10 minutes).. something like that. She plays with the kong, we throw sticks that she can carry back to us, sometimes we play on the veranda with a tennis ball. When I walk her in the forest, I "hide" behind trees so she can find me. We train on sit, lie down and come to us, and stay there, and so on. As she is 7 months old now, it might be time for her to learn more tricks  

But you are right, this is something we might have overlooked and that we could have done more of. Thanks for good advice in this thread. I will try and do more playing and training - and walk a bit shorter than we do now. As it is now, I take her out: morning when she wakes up for 5-10 mins for her to do her thing, lunchtime maybe 20-30 mins, evening 1 hour (will cut down on that one) and nighttime around 8 pm for 5-10 mins. 4 times per day, is that enough?

[RoxyRed]

This has been a really interesting thread to read, roxy who is 7 months old has walked some of the yorkshire dales, up pen-y-ghent and round the hole of horcum near Whitby, so a good few miles. We dont over do it but ive never strictly followed the 5 min rule. ( We got roxy in the winter so it was too cold for her anyway) When we got my first dog Roly, i never heard of the rule, me and my sister used to walk him every where, played and walked with him for hours when he was a puppy, hes 17 now and still gets up in the morning with no problem. Sometimes i think it depends on the dog too 

[mooching]

Sometimes i think it depends on the dog too 

It may well do. But the thing is, we've no way of knowing how the dog might be affected, have we?

[RoxyRed]

No i guess not but you could stick to the rules and do 5 mins per month of age, and do it religiously and still have problems with the dog. Its just genetics and you dont truly know until they are older or until they have problems, if they do

xxx

[mooching]

No i guess not but you could stick to the rules and do 5 mins per month of age, and do it religiously and still have problems with the dog. Its just genetics and you dont truly know until they are older or until they have problems, if they do

Well, as I said earlier, I would rather play it safe, minimise the risk and lessen the chances of there being a problem later on.

[mark1]

I think this topic is really a matter of opinion with such a lack of evidence. I think some will play it safe, others find a balance and some will disregard the whole thing as nonsense. My own opinion is that it's more down to genetics than how you exercise your puppy but over exercise in a dog that is susceptible will accelerate the problem but thats just based on my own reading and anecdotal evidence  I think you can time your walks to the minute or take them up mountains daily but you've got what you've got, years of breeding have seen to that, and you're not really going to effect too much at all.