Author Topic: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping  (Read 4324 times)

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Offline chrisUK263

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Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« on: April 28, 2011, 08:32:40 PM »
Having a problem recently with Jess, if for some reason I put her in the crate if I go upstairs for a shower and don't want to leave her on her own then I'll put her in the crate, but as of recently she will not stop barking. It can be up to 45 minutes until she will stop. She used to be so good at not barking and would just go in and chill out. secondly should we put her in when we are eating our food as she will constantly jump up and try to eat our food even when she has been fed her own puppy food.
Should i start trying to go through the crate training again of leaver her 1 min and then 2 ect?


Secondly she has been snapping at the children when they go to stroke her. last night she was sleeping and "Josh" 9 years old went to stroke her and she just growled and snapped at him (actually bit him and broke the skin) This could be linked with the guarding.

Offline Nicola

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 09:45:33 PM »
You should never let children (or anyone) disturb a sleeping dog; I'm not surprised Jess snapped in the circumstances. It's really important that if she's asleep or trying to get some quiet time that she can do this without being disturbed. Some dogs are ok with being woken up like this but some will startle and/or snap as a reaction and it's just best to leave them be when they're asleep.

Do you give her something to do when you crate her? Have you tried giving her something like a Kong or a chew to keep her occupied. If she's getting distressed being in the crate I would go back to shorter times and build it up again, making a nice place for her to be so she builds up a positive association with it again.
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Offline chrisUK263

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 07:57:31 AM »
You should never let children (or anyone) disturb a sleeping dog; I'm not surprised Jess snapped in the circumstances. It's really important that if she's asleep or trying to get some quiet time that she can do this without being disturbed. Some dogs are ok with being woken up like this but some will startle and/or snap as a reaction and it's just best to leave them be when they're asleep.

Do you give her something to do when you crate her? Have you tried giving her something like a Kong or a chew to keep her occupied. If she's getting distressed being in the crate I would go back to shorter times and build it up again, making a nice place for her to be so she builds up a positive association with it again.

Yeah, whenever she's in there she gets either a carrot or a kong filled with food.

Also this morning we had a bad start she managed to get a cereal box out from the cupboard and it was on the floor in the kitchen. When I walked in she started to growl so i gave the command "Leave it" which we are learning at the moment but she didn't so I picked up the box and she went crazy. She bit me several times (Breaking the skin) and snarling, the lot (She's never done that to me before) the trainer suggest when she does this holding her firmly but not tight and giving the command "Settle" and when she does then let go and give her praise, this worked for a bit then she started again with the growling and the biting. I couldn't really leave the room to upset her as there is no cupboard doors on some of the cupboards at the moment and she might have got something else. I'm just glad the little girl or boy didn't try to take it away.

Offline Sarah1985

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 07:59:10 AM »
Its very important you dont let her out while shes barking, wait till shes quiet before returning to her.

Is she getting any reward from barking. Normally a pup will try it on by barking when they know your still at home to hear them but after a few failed attempts give up and go back to settling quietly.

If shes settling eventually Id personally just leave her to realise that barking isnt going to get her let out.


With regards to your son I agree with Nicola. Put yourself in Jess' position, Imagine if you were fast asleep on the sofa and someone come over and trying to stroke you. Chances are you'd be pretty snappy with them for waking you up. :005:


Offline Sarah1985

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 08:11:42 AM »
Yeah, whenever she's in there she gets either a carrot or a kong filled with food.

Also this morning we had a bad start she managed to get a cereal box out from the cupboard and it was on the floor in the kitchen. When I walked in she started to growl so i gave the command "Leave it" which we are learning at the moment but she didn't so I picked up the box and she went crazy. She bit me several times (Breaking the skin) and snarling, the lot (She's never done that to me before) the trainer suggest when she does this holding her firmly but not tight and giving the command "Settle" and when she does then let go and give her praise, this worked for a bit then she started again with the growling and the biting. I couldn't really leave the room to upset her as there is no cupboard doors on some of the cupboards at the moment and she might have got something else. I'm just glad the little girl or boy didn't try to take it away.

By far the easiest way of dealing with this is not to give her the oppertunity to get hold of anything she shouldnt have. If the kitchen isnt dog proof then dont let her in there till shes older.  By giving her access to naughty items (like the cereal box) you are establishing a pattern of her finding something fun to play with and a human then taking away her prize, which is leading to this aggressive guarding that your seeing. And by taking it away it becomes much higher value next time she manages to get her paws on it.

If she has something that she considers high value and the leave comand isnt working show her a higher value alternative that your offering. So Get out a higher value treat, start making her breakfast, engage her in her fav game, run around making silly noises, anything to make you more interesting than the cereal box so that you can get her away from it. Once you've tempted her away and shes safely in another room and you've rewarded her you can go back (without her) to collect the cereal box.

 I wouldnt suggest you engage her in confrontation, this will lead to a highly stressful situation and as you;ve found you can easierly get hurt.

If you really cant get her to come away from something Have you considered leaving a small lead on her all day so that you can easierly lead her away without manhandling her?

Offline Karma

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 08:53:46 AM »

Absolutely agree with what has been said.

And utterly disagree with your trainer's advice to hold on to her until she relaxes... I know my adult dog wouldn't relax under those circumstances... I'm not suprised you got the reaction you did.

Look at the kitchen incident from her point of view.

Imagine you are exploring a foreign country - there have been a few locals around with you, but communication is difficult - they seem to like to give you some nickname, which you think you've figured out, and they like you to sit when they say another word, but a lot of the time they talk gibberish at you.  You think you like them, but sometimes some of the smaller ones take you by suprise, or are suddenly there when you don't expect them to be, and then everyone seems really cross.
Anyway, you are exploring, and you find a fruit (chocolate, whatever....) grove - loads and loads of trees with really tasty fruits, many of which you've never tasted before... you select one to try.  Suddenly one of the locals appears and starts saying something - you're sure you've heard the words before but you don't know what they mean, because you're too worried about keeping hold of this really yummy fruit... suddenly the local comes up and tries to grab it off you - well, you're not having that - there's plenty here for everyone, but you want YOUR prize... so you tell him "Oi, this is mine - back off" - but he doesn't listen (I guess he doesn't understand!) and picks up YOUR prize... well, you'd be mighty annoyed, wouldn't you!
And if his response to you telling him how annoyed you were was to confine you until you stopped complaining, you might stop briefly, but the second you got free, you'd still be mighty cross and would make sure he knew it...

If Jess hasn't yet learned "leave" there is no point asking her to do it in a high pressure situation... what you need to do, as Sarah says, is to prevent her getting access in the first place and, if she does get something, distract her from it, swap it etc. 

Use a hands off approach - no physical confrontations or keeping hold of her until she "calms down" - she will want to please you, so give her the opportunity and guidance to make the right choices by using lures, rewards, distractions etc.

And let sleeping dogs lie!!! I wouldn't approach and fuss my adult dog when she was asleep... if she's asleep on me, that's different, as she knows I'm there and wouldn't be startled... otherwise I gently let her know I am there before making any kind of contact with her...  ;)
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Offline chrisUK263

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2011, 08:48:07 PM »
we weren't able to prevent her from getting the cereal boxes due to the cupboard doors being replaced and we were building something in the living room so we couldn't have her in there with us.

As for the crate situation. I never let her out when she barks, she only get let out when quite for roughly 20/30 seconds. But she will still persist for up to 45 minutes barking.

Offline kathleenalder

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2011, 09:35:29 PM »
Chris I feel you, Missy is very similar and we are still trying things out with her what works. She used to bark a lot and my tainer and what people said her are all the same, it is primarily an attention bark. Leave her (as hard as it is) and wait for silence.
Missy also barks when she is tired but doesnt know what to do.. We are currently trying to not put her in the crate and instead let her learn to settle by herself in her room, but that is easier said than done....
Missy also snapps and snarls, i think it is a phase though it is starting to get painful, her biting... all you can do is ignore her, so she learns it isnt rewarding behaviour ...I also find she gets that way when she needs to go outside to do her toilet business...

Good luck! ;-)

Offline Mel

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2011, 01:46:59 AM »
Chris, did you get what I suggested in my pm to you? Might be worth your while  :D
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Offline Joules

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011, 08:42:52 AM »
If you ask me, it is unreasonable to expect a cocker (esp a pup) not to take stuff out of a cupboard if the door is left open. :dunno: Coco is 6 this year and I have realised that I will probably never be able to leave food within her reach  >:(

The rule is, if you don't want her to have it, then it is up to you to make sure she can't get hold of it.  :shades:

Agree with what has been said about disturbing her when she is asleep - not surprised she wasn't happy about being woken up.  The children will have to learn to leave her alone when she is quiet and having a bit of peace and if they can't, you will need to keep them separate until they can ;)
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Offline Karma

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011, 09:07:13 AM »

I would also say 20-30 seconds of silence is too much to expect if the barking is as bad as you say.

She needs a reward for the smallest amount of silence, so that she learns that not barking is rewarding!!!  I would be responding after  2 seconds of not barking.... then building up to a word of praise, then reward, so you are possible getting 5 seconds of not barking... then putting in more praise before reward... then waiting a couple more seconds before the praise... gradually building it up (but sometimes rewarding immediately, so that she doesn't realise it's just getting harder and harder!).

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Offline Joyce

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011, 09:59:38 AM »
I agree with a lot that has been said, also when you are eating do not have any eye contact with her and just ignore her, it will take time but she will soon get the message, how old is she? 

Offline chrisUK263

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011, 05:37:56 PM »
I agree with a lot that has been said, also when you are eating do not have any eye contact with her and just ignore her, it will take time but she will soon get the message, how old is she? 

shes roughly 21 weeks.

Offline PennyB

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 12:44:16 AM »
If you ask me, it is unreasonable to expect a cocker (esp a pup) not to take stuff out of a cupboard if the door is left open. :dunno: Coco is 6 this year and I have realised that I will probably never be able to leave food within her reach  >:(

The rule is, if you don't want her to have it, then it is up to you to make sure she can't get hold of it.  :shades:

I agree - with some fosters I've had to put bins in odd places so they can't get them and my bin currently has a wierd setup so the dogs can't get to it - its too high value for them even as adults to leave. Half the time i can't find anything as whatever it is has been shoved away where dogs or foster pups can't get it.

My own cocker Ruby (who's now 9) went through a really challenging phase at this age but she's a well balanced adult now - but at the time it was hard work and a lot of patience.
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Offline HeatherandBenjy

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Re: Wont go into chill out in her crate PLUS snapping
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2011, 09:08:16 PM »
I'm sorry that your little boy has been upset, but you cannot disturb a dog that is asleep.

I have six cockers here, I would never, ever go and stroke one when they're asleep and can pretty much guarantee that I'd get a reaction from even the most placid of my dogs. Your pup is like a small child, she has bouts of mad energy and then needs to sleep. It is really important that she feels safe and secure while she is asleep. I cannot emphasise this enough, your children MUST leave her alone when she is asleep.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I just don't think that you're being fair to Jess if you don't get the children to follow some basic rules around her. :(
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