Author Topic: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle *UPDATE*  (Read 3696 times)

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Offline Neon

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2011, 01:06:53 PM »
This morning I walked past three dogs with muzzles on. Two of them were off lead and fine meeting our two so I would imagine it's for the same reason  :blink:.



Thanks Sarah, it probably was for the same reason.  Toby is well known and has lots of doggie friends and the owners will understand why he has been muzzled.  I don't want anyone thinking he's vicious.  I can take it off when he has a rough and tumble with his doggie pals.  The only problem I have at the moment is what size to get him.  The website says number 6 for cockers but I assume that's adult cocker size.  

EDIT: Just emailed Animal Snack and Tack to ask for advice on what size to order.

(RIP Charlie and Jarvis - Love You Both Forever)  :luv: :luv:

Offline Sarah.H

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2011, 03:10:51 PM »
I needed to get one for grooming millie, I got itfrom the vets as they let me try it on her first.

Millie

Offline SteveB

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2011, 09:46:54 AM »
The trouble with using a muzzle is that you are masking the problem not curing it.

Offline Karma

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2011, 09:50:47 AM »
The trouble with using a muzzle is that you are masking the problem not curing it.

That's why the advice that has been given includes other training to use alongside... and a muzzle breaks the pattern of the self-rewarding nature of scavenging...  ;)
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline SteveB

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2011, 10:11:14 AM »
That's why the advice that has been given includes other training to use alongside... and a muzzle breaks the pattern of the self-rewarding nature of scavenging...  ;)
[/quote]

Yes I agree with some of your comments but still believe a muzzle is masking the problem.
Distraction is a better policy in my opinion. A special toy or dummy that is only used when out walking and put away after. Also by the sound of it the heel work and  recall could be worked on more, because at the moment it will rather eat than come back.
Yes both of our Cockers have picked up a tasty treat (in their eyes) when pups but it was curbed at an early stage by using the above methods.
As for the sitting next to the item again  surely it would be better to use their natural instinct and retrieve the item (which will also help with the recall)

Offline seaangler

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2011, 10:18:30 AM »
Hi ya...AS Karma says...I have only just got back with all three of my dogs and Hide and seek is a great game to play...and was on are agenda this morning training with Gemma...

There is a dug out on the football pitch over are park and what i do is get Gemma's attention first by clicker and reward while he is eating it hide behind the dug out keeping an eye of the dog at all times...IF he wonders of in a different direction click the clicker to bring him back...(and keep hiding he will pick your scent up)All i can say its works with are gemma....Chris

It will work in the end ...It just takes time and plenty of will power ;)





Gemma..Cindy And peggy

Offline lilylulu

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2011, 10:41:10 AM »
Hi Lily is 3 now and we have had the same problem with her since she was a pup. I did consider a muzzle but am now able to distract her most of the time by shouting find the birdies. Sounds silly but she usually drops what she should not be eating and runs around forgetting what she should not be eating giving me time to pick it up. Not very nice as I always have a pocket full of rubbish, lol Good luck.

Offline Karma

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2011, 11:23:39 AM »

The idea of sitting next to something was trying the adapt the retrieve for a situation where the dog can't pick up due to the muzzle.  The OP has struggled with this for some time, and there are genuine health issues being caused.

Ideally, yes, distraction and training would be the way to go, but if a behaviour is seriously ingrained, preventing it while working on the training is no bad thing.

We used to regularly walk with a Weim who was muzzled for about 6 months are her poo-eating habit kept landing her at the vets (with serious tummy issues).  During the muzzled months, the owner was able to improve her recall and train a leave it - now the dog may occassionally have a nibble, but isn't poo-obsessed and is happily walked off-lead with no muzzle.

When training "leave it" and recall we are always advised to start with low value items, or low levels of distraction, and build up - scavenging has become a high-level distraction so would seriously impact on the ability to train a recall.  A long-line wouldn't be sufficient in this case, as the dog could easily pick up and eat whatever while it was being reeled back in.  A muzzle allows off-lead exercise to continue while training is in progress.

click the clicker to bring him back...

You should not click the clicker to get a dog to come.  It is a marker of them doing the correct behaviour, not a recall command or a way of attracting your dog's attention.... I've lost count of the number of times I've had to say this to you.  If you don't want to use to clicker correctly, that's up to you, but do be careful giving advice to others about it, as you could confuse the issue.  ;)
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Neon

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle UPDATE page 2
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2011, 03:22:46 PM »
Just caught up with this thread.  In the first instance, I have to agree with Karma - I too have thought that Toby's obsession with picking things up and eating them is very much ingrained and needs immediate prevention to avoid any further self induced illness.  He's always done it and it's a habit that has to be broken.  Toby is recovered from his recent upset stomach and has been out on a couple of little walks wearing a muzzle.  I would rather he didn't need to wear one, but this is the second time in two months he's made himself ill, so prevention is certainly better than cure.  He is accepting it although he tries once or twice to shake it off.  He is much calmer on his walk, he's not pulling my shoulder out of it's socket to get at something and is more or less walking to heel.  It's such a relief for me to know that on or off lead, he is safe from indulging himself with something perilous.  I am calmer and more clear headed now, instead of being stressed trying to get stuff out of his mouth.  This enables me to concentrate much more on the "leave" command now, although Toby's not trying so hard to get to stuff because he must have realised he'll have a wasted effort with no "reward" at the end.  Wearing a muzzle is not intended to be a permanent prevention, I realise he needs to learn exactly what "leave" means and we are working on that.  When I feel more confident I will try him without the muzzle.  
On a "social" note, a man came up to us and said "does he really need to be wearing that" so I explained exactly why he was wearing it.  People have been moving their dogs and children out of his way and I've been explaining that he's not a vicious dog.  I never thought I'd see a cocker wearing a muzzle, least of all one of mine, but knowing that Toby is safe from self destruction is making it worthwhile. (I was also interested to hear that the vet's 5 year old cocker wears a muzzle as she does the same thing!!!)

That's why the advice that has been given includes other training to use alongside... and a muzzle breaks the pattern of the self-rewarding nature of scavenging...  ;)

Yes I agree with some of your comments but still believe a muzzle is masking the problem.
[/quote]

Sorry, but no way can I agree with this.  In Toby's case, wearing the muzzle equates to prevention.  Masking a problem is attempting to cover it up, almost pretending it doesn't exist - totally different to prevention.

(RIP Charlie and Jarvis - Love You Both Forever)  :luv: :luv:

Offline 8 Hairy Feet

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2011, 03:37:26 PM »
Yes it must seem odd to folks
because most will presume it's
for other reasons.
However, you know it's a tool
that you are using to bring Toby :luv:
to where you want him.
Nothing wrong with that and your
post shows that you are getting
the benefit straightaway.
steffxxx

Offline Neon

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2011, 03:46:15 PM »
Thanks Steff.  It's proving beneficial to both of us at the moment, so it's a positive way forward for us.

(RIP Charlie and Jarvis - Love You Both Forever)  :luv: :luv:

Offline Neon

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle *UPDATE*
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2011, 10:55:14 PM »
Thought I'd give a little update on the muzzle scenario.  Tobes has been wearing it both on and off lead (unless playing with other dogs) for a month now.  We've been working hard on the "leave" command.  Today, I thought I'd try him without it and at first he was grabbing at bits and pieces but then he calmed down and didn't seem quite so interested in stuffing anything and everything in his mouth.  On every "leave" command that's exactly what he did.  I was so pleased with him.   :angel:  It's early days yet but maybe it won't be too long now before he can go out without the muzzle completely - I hope so.

(RIP Charlie and Jarvis - Love You Both Forever)  :luv: :luv:

Offline bajoleth

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2011, 08:55:56 AM »
Excellent news, glad its working out for you and Toby ;)
Jo, Belle and Monty

Offline black taz

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »
Well done with the training, glad it is paying off. 

Offline Sarah.H

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Re: I think it's going to have to be a muzzle
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2011, 05:52:14 PM »
Fantastic news  :D :D

Millie