Worried by something the vet said about our nervous puppy

[Tillymai]

We're still struggling with Bear as he's just so nervous. We were at the vets today so I mentioned it to her, thinking I would get some helpful advice, but what she actually said was that as he's now 23 weeks we've 'missed the socialisation window' and he'll probably always be this way. We got him at 16 weeks and the vet said he's 'been with his mother too long'. Surely that can't be right can it  

I'd realised there wasn't going to be a quick solution but I assumed there will be a solution at some stage and that with love and reassurance he would slowly come round and stop being so frightened, but at the moment we're going backwards not forwards and things he accepted a week ago (like me putting the lead on) he now runs away from.

We'd talked to his breeder at length about socialisation before we got him but some of the things we were told just don't seem to fit with how he seems now, I've left her several messages but unfortunately she hasn't got back to me yet (though she might be on holiday I suppose). She was recommended to us by some COLers and I know a few people on here have her dogs and speak very highly of her.

We're still working with the trainer in both classes and 1 to 1s but trying to find the right balance between not putting Bear in situations he finds stressful and keeping the household functioning vaguely as normal is increasingly difficult as I can't ask my OH to stay away from his own home!

I just don't know what to do  

[Vicki]

I'm afraid I don't have the experience to advise you on your situation. However I did want to reassure about what you said re. Bear running away from the lead.

Like you we got Sally at 16 weeks of age. I don't think she'd ever worn a harness before we got her, and when we introduced it she hated it. Right up until she was 6-7 months old, she would still get very silly about her harness and lead. Running away from me, hiding at the back of the garden, grrring etc. Preparing for 'walkies' was a nightmare, and I remember at the time wondering whether she'd ever get over her 'phobia'. I'd get particularly frustrated that she would be fine one week, and then inexplicably revert to her skittish ways the next.

But she did get there in the end with lots of patience.

[SkyeandOllie]

Sounds a difficult situation   the vet is probably right about him missing out on vital things as a young pup,  its very important in those first few weeks they experience things that they would come across in day to day life.  Sounds like he has missed out in a chunk with you not geting him until 16 weeks. The breeder may not have put enough time into him to get him to be a confident dog,  although if either of his parents were nervy it may not help, He may always be a nervy dog.  your OH needs to be a source of fun and food,  is he ok with you? if so I'd suggest your OH does all the nice things with him like feeding,  playing (if pup wants to),  for him to not try too hard with the pup like picking him up etc  (my mums rescue dog took a over a year to speak to my dad! although thats an extreme case) and you do the stuff he doesn't really like,  the vets, ear drops etc.

Someone else more experienced will come on soon Im sure!  Maybe he needs to be seen by a behaviourist at home so they can see what hes like in his own home

[Holly Berry]

Have you thought about Ttouch? I have found it really beneficial with Rosie. http://www.ttouchtteam.co.uk/

She wasn't socialised as a puppy(lived with my Mum until she was 12 months old) and her lack of confidence didn't really manifest itself until we lost our 2 older dogs and we got Ebony. She gets stressed with other dogs and some people. She has really come on leaps and bounds.

[sands]

Aw poor you and poor Bear too! My heart goes out to you both   

No real advice I'm afraid but do you perhaps have friends or neighbours who have older quiet dogs who would help him gain some confidence? 

I'm sure someone with much more experience than me will come along shortly with some good sound advice.

Please keep us posted on how things are going 

[Karma]

It is harder to socialise a puppy once it is past the socialisation window, but it's not impossible.

The fact that he is very nervous isn't necessarily a sign that he hasn't been properly socialised, but I think in your position I would want to clarify what socialisation had occurred before he came to you, so you can build on it.  16 weeks is old for a pup to move to a new home, but reputable breeders do sometimes have older pups, so the vet shouldn't assume the worst just from that - a breeder may have been let down by a potential buyer, or they may have been planning to keep a pup for themselves as a show prospect - in that case it's not unheard of for a breeder to keep two for a few weeks to see which is showing the best potential and then sell the other - these pups would be well socialised and cared for during this period.

We have a puppy at our puppy classes at the minute who is very nervous - last week he couldn't cope with doing anything in class, barked at every movement of anyone else, and we had to leave the hall twice to let him calm down, even with constant drip feeding of treats.  This week, while he was still nervous and needed a lot of treat distractions, he was actually able to work on the exercises, didn't need to leave the hall once and, while there was some barking, he was quickly distracted back to focus on his owner. 

Try and approach everything with lots of treats - I'd be tempted not to feed any meals in a bowl at the minute, but use his kibble as treats - if you can give him a treat whenever he sees or is faced with something he is nervous of, but before he starts reacting to it, you can actually change his emotional response to things that frighten him.  Your OH can hand feed him (assuming Bear will cope with this - if not you can hand feed him while your OH is nearby but far enough away for Bear to handle it). 

Also, your pup could be going through the secondary fear stage (it's a little early, but not unrealistically so) which could explain why he is now scared of things he was previously ok with.  This is an entirely normal, if little mentioned, developmental stage... 

I would also agree with Holly Berry, in saying that T-Touch could be very helpful... 

[BillysMum]

my billy is a timid nervous dog, not with us at home or anything i do to him but with other people and dogs he doesn't know. He was well socialised though but when i take him into a class environment he creeps, tail down and shakes i'm working on it though with the help of a fab trainer/ behaviourist. When he gets particularly scared i have to start singing and dancing which is embarrassing but usually gets billy to atleast move. Its not easy but with alot of work you can get through it. Good luck x

[Tillymai]

Thanks so much for your kind words and advice. It's so useful to hear about the secondary fear stage and that Sally would go off her lead even after you thought she was ok with it. I was starting to worry that because he had been ok with that and this week he isn't, that somehow we'd failed! 

We will keep persevering with all the training advice we've been given, at the moment Bear won't accept handing feeding by my husband or by me if OH is anywhere near, but he will take a treat if we drop it for him so we'll just stick with that. He won't come near me if the lead is in sight but he will let me put the lead on whilst he is in his crate and once it's on, he seems quite happy to come for a walk.

It's upsetting seeing him at puppy class when he looks so anxious and all the other puppies are full of excitement and enthusiasm but I guess I just have to learn to reset my expectations and remind myself that the other, bouncy puppies worry their owners too but just for different reasons   

[LynneB]

I'm sure he will be fine. 3 years ago I rescued 3 bichons from a puppy farm. They were filthy, had overgrown claws, hand shy and had never been on a lead. They were all over a year old. They are now very happy girls who love their walks and are so affectionate you would not believe they had such a bad start in life. It just takes patience. Good luck.

[c19unn]

Hi
I bought Diesel at 13 weeks and couldnt take him out as he hadnt had his jags so it ended up being 17 weeks before i could take him out on walks and get him out and about.
Althought he wasnt overly nervous, he can get afraid of a large number of dogs, large vehicles driving past, Loud noises and barking (other dogs barking at him)
 
I have days with diesel even now (at 6 months) where he will sit for his coller getting put on and some days he causes such a big deal out of it wriggling and pushing etc.
I have found that treating him when he puts on his collar seems to be working - he will chew the lead and try to get it off till he see's the front door opening and realises he is going out on a walk so i put his lead on at the front door and he is great then.

What i found helped him alot was getting my friend round to mine who has a 2 yr old (Well a 2 yr old beagle) who has a very relaxed and not bothered by the pup attitude. He came rounf to ours, my friend would hold him and let diesel approach him to have a sniff or look (the beagle just looked at him but didnt get excited) When diesel seemed ok with him we let the beagle loose shall we say - he was great with diesel would let diesel smack him about a bit and play with him then when he seen diesel was relaxed would join in the fun although he will bark at diesel if he was overly nippy with him - And diesel learned how to play properly and was then getting less scared.

I dont know if this will help any as im not a trainer or anything but a couiple of times me and the other half have felt that getting him older has made some things a bit more difficult but he certainly has no problem letting us know what he wants 

I hope that things will continue to work out for you and just keep at it - as lynne said its not a lost cause - you only need to look at rescue dogs and how well some of them pull through after bad starts!!

Charlene and Diesel