Author Topic: Gundog training  (Read 1548 times)

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Offline KellyT

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Re: Gundog training
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2012, 10:51:16 PM »
Thanks for the replies folks they are all constructive. I know Harry is way too young for 'proper' gundog training, am I right in thinking that it's 12-18 months?


Hazel was only 7 months when I took her for initial training - ie whistle recalls, searching, retrieving etc. I honestly think she would be too nervous on a proper shoot though, so I just want the training to stimulate her and keep her mind working :)

I don't think they are ever too young to start learning 'obedience' new things such as gun dog training or further obedience / heel work, but, agility they need to be older to ensure they are fully grown to prevent injuries to growth plates etc by jumping
Kelly & the 3 muskaspaniels x

Offline jonnytrabant

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Re: Gundog training
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2012, 10:50:22 AM »
Well Harry went to his first gundog training lesson, well more of an assessment really just to show the trainer how far I'd come with him, and it wasn't good. Harry has picked up some bad habits, by me of course. Gundog training is a world away from puppy training that he's going to at the minute and to be honest I learnt more in an hour than 4 lessons at puppy school and that's by no way being critical of the puppy school it's just that a bit training one to one and someone who really understands Cockers is far more beneficial than say a class of 10 dogs, all at different levels and more importantly all different dogs.

Already with 10 mins training this morning his retrieving has improved and with not one treat being given. The trainer emphasised the importance of bonding with my dog, not in the way I thought I was bonding but a totally different way, it's kinda hard to explain in a few words but it made sense to me. For instance recall. Harry was great at recall in his first weeks off the lead and heres me thinking I've got it sussed, when especially in the last few days he won't recall at all, it's because I've given him the freedom and now he's getting a bit braver, more confident and now he can say 'sod you, I am not coming, you've let me free, so I'll come when I want'. I've got to work on creating myself as the person he really wants to come so she's given me some tasks to do, which I'll try this afternoon. Training isn't about sit, give a paw etc, it's training the dog to do precisely what you want the dog to do. Once the dog relises he can get a treat if he sits, he'll do it, but your not necessary 'training' him, hes just learnt that if he sits he'll get a treat and when he doesnt, he'll learn that too, and refuse to sit, so your back right to the start. If the training is good your dog will respond as Harry already has, albeit in a very small step.

No more puppy classes for Harry now.

Offline piph

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Re: Gundog training
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2012, 12:08:12 PM »
Well Harry went to his first gundog training lesson, well more of an assessment really just to show the trainer how far I'd come with him, and it wasn't good. Harry has picked up some bad habits, by me of course. Gundog training is a world away from puppy training that he's going to at the minute and to be honest I learnt more in an hour than 4 lessons at puppy school and that's by no way being critical of the puppy school it's just that a bit training one to one and someone who really understands Cockers is far more beneficial than say a class of 10 dogs, all at different levels and more importantly all different dogs.

Already with 10 mins training this morning his retrieving has improved and with not one treat being given. The trainer emphasised the importance of bonding with my dog, not in the way I thought I was bonding but a totally different way, it's kinda hard to explain in a few words but it made sense to me. For instance recall. Harry was great at recall in his first weeks off the lead and heres me thinking I've got it sussed, when especially in the last few days he won't recall at all, it's because I've given him the freedom and now he's getting a bit braver, more confident and now he can say 'sod you, I am not coming, you've let me free, so I'll come when I want'. I've got to work on creating myself as the person he really wants to come so she's given me some tasks to do, which I'll try this afternoon. Training isn't about sit, give a paw etc, it's training the dog to do precisely what you want the dog to do. Once the dog relises he can get a treat if he sits, he'll do it, but your not necessary 'training' him, hes just learnt that if he sits he'll get a treat and when he doesnt, he'll learn that too, and refuse to sit, so your back right to the start. If the training is good your dog will respond as Harry already has, albeit in a very small step.

No more puppy classes for Harry now.

Sounds like you learnt a lot!  It would be interesting to know what tasks you have to do with Harry, and how you are getting on.  I do agree with positive training, but I think it's a bit too treat based for my liking - especially for a cocker - they'll do anything and everything for food, but are too bloody minded and stubborn to do stuff when you stop treating every time! >:D

Offline Bronte

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Re: Gundog training
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2012, 12:47:30 PM »
Thanks for the update, would be really interested to know about the tasks and how you get on.

Offline praia

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Re: Gundog training
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2012, 03:21:11 PM »
Training isn't about sit, give a paw etc, it's training the dog to do precisely what you want the dog to do. Once the dog relises he can get a treat if he sits, he'll do it, but your not necessary 'training' him, hes just learnt that if he sits he'll get a treat and when he doesnt, he'll learn that too, and refuse to sit, so your back right to the start. If the training is good your dog will respond as Harry already has, albeit in a very small step.

Very true.  I think that's one of the biggest failures about positive only treat based training.  Many people confuse rewarding behavior with bribery.  Hoping and praying that a dog will come back because you have a "high value" treat is ridiculous.  What's more high value to a dog than satisfying the genetic drives to explore and to chase prey even if it happens to be into traffic?  Real training is about proofing behaviors so that they perform the behavior every time no matter where you are and even if you don't have any food on you.  I can't imagine having to carry bits of food and squeaky toys with me everywhere I go just to get my dogs to listen to me. A dog's behavior should only be dependent on the amount of training you've put towards it and the bond you have, not whether or not your have hot dogs and liver cake stashed in your pocket.

I do gun dog training with my show type Cocker and she is wonderful.  By 7 months she was doing marked and blind retrieves in thick cover and water. We started training her the day she came home. Never used treats to train retrieves, though she was always a natural at it and that really came down to her breeding.  Good luck with your training and with your pup.  It's really a joy seeing a Cocker do what it was bred for.