Archie bitten daughter again - out of options

[Geordietyke]

Jaysmumagain - thanks for that.  Yes, you can pm me the name please.

Mudmagnets - I tried Odie on Burns and he lost weight (as a lot of them do) so I didn't give them a go with Archie as he finds it difficult to keep weight on! 

Re. the doorway thing.  The trainer did say it was to teach good manners, much like children, you have to teach them what is right and what is unacceptable. 

I just wasn't sure about any link between aggression/hyper dogs and higher protein level food (20%+).  There seems to be info out there debunking the fact that it causes aggression so don't know what to believe.....

[MIN]

OH and I have discussed Archie and only Gemma's anti dog behavior stops us stepping in. We would gladly have took him on if she was not an issue herself. Some one out there has the answe, WE have just got to find them for you

what about a muzzle for the moment while you take thinking time.

lorna

[twiceover2]

A muzzle is an absolute must for now.  We have considered Archie too but we have current problems with our older boy who is stressed out from recent changes and health problems and wouldn't cope with a new arrival.  I agree there must be someone who would be able to take him and at least give him the chance to see if his behaviour would be different in a less busy, adult-only home, possibly with an older calmer dog to learn from.

[tenaille]

Lets get back on track here and try to give support and advice in this stressful situation.  Ignore the insensitivity of the other persons remarks and just try to read any constructive advice that may be in them. You must prevent any further bites while you make your decision, I know its easy to say but the things we have done are:

muzzle - the basket types are easy fitting and don't seem to cause distress for short periods.
crate - I use a large size crate which he now goes in without problem when I want some peace and quiet. He can see me and not fret.  He hated the crate when he was younger.
house line - he has a light line on in the house to make it easier to move him from doorways or from under the table.
Kennels - when we have family/friends staying or we are going away he goes to a kennels either on a daytime only or full time basis (one where all the dogs mix together and only come inside to eat and sleep).  He had to be evaluated by the owner first and has never been a problem for her.
food - we've tried all the grain free, never really noted any difference, currently on Lukullus (23% protein)

As I mentioned earlier in the thread we are in the same situation with Beau and he has just started on Prozac,  I will let you know if it does any good, or if I hear of any rescue that would consider a dog that has bitten.

[Pearly]

Jaysmumagain - thanks for that.  Yes, you can pm me the name please.

Mudmagnets - I tried Odie on Burns and he lost weight (as a lot of them do) so I didn't give them a go with Archie as he finds it difficult to keep weight on! 

Re. the doorway thing.  The trainer did say it was to teach good manners, much like children, you have to teach them what is right and what is unacceptable. 

I just wasn't sure about any link between aggression/hyper dogs and higher protein level food (20%+).  There seems to be info out there debunking the fact that it causes aggression so don't know what to believe.....

I'm not sure about theories but I know that Pearl, can and does, get hyper on the wrong foods, she also cannot tolerate the really good kibbles (30%+ animal protein).  Pearl has recently been unwell (bronchitis) and I chose to take both off raw until I knew what was causing her breathlessness etc...also had a weekend away in the van so it was a good excuse.  Coral was a nightmare, literally climbing walls and spinning with excitement.  We are back on day 2 of raw and I gave two content, calm dogs again......also hoping Coral maybe more obedient when out "walking"    I'm not suggesting raw as it's not everyone's idea of feeding but it would be worth having a chat to a nutritionalist (Skinners have a great one and will send you a 3Kg sample if food if they think they have the right kibble for Archie) I'm sure other brands will have folk who can provide some guidance too.

Good advice from Tenaillie

[Markr64]

I have just revisited this post and I was horrified by some of the comments. The whole idea of forums is one of support and not to lay into people who have problems. I hope that you are ok geordietyke and please shut out the negative comments from people who are not worthy of supporting you.

There are many good people on here and I have had problems which have been not completely solved, but I now have the tools to deal with the issues. I know from reading the posts that you have worked very hard and you must be broken in pieces. Please accept the best sincere wishes from my family and me.

[siam]

Am really sorry to read that things have reached this stage with Archie. Just a thought from reading one of your posts Lesley - you mentioned in it that Archie gets very stressed if he's not constantly by your side. When you said that you were just chatting to your daughter when he went for her I wonder if he resented her having your attention and it's maybe jealousy related, but maybe your behaviourist has already explored this possibility. He maybe wants you all to himself and see the girls as a threat to him having you all the time.

[Deb H]

I had to laugh about spending too much time on forums.... Err the person making that comment A) joined the forum and read the thread. My lot are on Taste of the wild Salmon which is lower in protein and free from wheat and gluten.

[henryjack1dogs]

Advice...Work on recall and get him to have more free running. My older dog is very highly strung does push it with my OH and my children, growling etc.  He's very much about me.  If he wasn't free running for around 1/2 hours a day he would go crazy and be completely bored.  Archie will thrive and enjoy life and mentally will be worn out with free running.  For now, Use a muzzle if you don't trust him.  I'm not a believer of dogs being shut in different areas when families are in the house.  I separate my oldest boy away from the family when they are eating away from the table but that is all...Oh and when he rolls in the muddy puddles.  It's  a rotten situation you are in, but dogs do pick up on our anxiety and it sounds like Archie is totally obsessed with you. 

I have no solutions for all of this, only you can follow the path that is right for you all.  It is very sad if a healthy dog was to be PTS, I wish I knew a child free dog friendly house who could take him on.  Have you tried him on a BARF diet. 

[assumpta]

My heart goes out to you and your family and Archie and reading your earlier posts I know how much you have tried to work through all this. As I too have children I totally understand how this situation can't go on and lead a normal family life with the stress of keeping your children and Archie separated. It just couldn't work long term. Thinking on you all at this very difficult time

[Geordietyke]

Min & twiceover2 - bless your hearts!  How kind of you    I'd be very nervous and would feel guilty if he caused any problems with your resident dog(s) and I knew about it (via COL).  He should really be assessed before any new home too.

Tenaille - I have considered a muzzle but I wasn't sure how long at a time I could use it.  The muzzle and crate would need to be used when the girls are home from school (from 3.45pm).

Markr64 - thank you for your kind words, it really helps me cope 

siam - it is strange but the other daughter hangs around me far more and he has no beef with her.   

Ironically, he has more 1:1 attention than any other dog I know as I work from home (however, maybe that is the problem).

henryjack1dogs - I am working on recall but it is step by step and I won't get to the off lead part until beginning of October!  The muzzle isn't for when he is out and about - he is fine with everyone and other dogs then, however he is deaf when I try to recall him and it's awful when I have to run over to retrieve him....  He is totally obsessed with me, always has been but I do everything as hubby works 6/7 days a week and is often out at evening meetings/late in.  I had the girls feed him but since the attacks, have stopped this.  I am trying really hard not to show my anxiety etc but I'm sure he'll be picking up some of it. 

Thank you assumpta, it is easier to imagine my scenario and what is having to be done if you have children.

[Redked]

I think this has to be the hardest thing I have read in my 2 and a half years on here. I don't know what to say nor am I in any position to offer you advice.

But I would like to say that very often people like to portray perfection and feel it's their god given right to look down from their high perches and preach to us lesser imperfect ones; please please ignore those type of comments Leslie. You are real, honest and totally at the end of your tether and you need help and support not judgment.

You have done nothing but try your bloody hardest. All of us know all your efforts, time, and blood sweat and tears with both of your dogs, Odie and Archie. You adore your family and your dog but are totally caught in a no win situation here. You have tried everything and exhausted all options. I cannot advise what you should do but I support you 100% in whatever you decide xxx

[lescef]

From reading your last post it really sounds like resource guarding of you with separation anxiety thrown in the mix. Is this what the behaviourist thought?
Something so small that you didn't notice must have happened with your daughter to make him guard.
Bramble was obsessed with me and as we are retired we are with her most of the time. One of the things we were told was to crate her for an hour or so each day whilst we were in so she could learn to be away from me. It must be very difficult when you are on your own a lot. It would be very beneficial to you all if you could get him crate trained as you could have crates in several rooms so he can be with you. I think there are crate training games on the net.

[Karma]

Geordietyke - I'm sure the negative posts on this thread feel like daggers sticking into your heart at the minute, but know that those of us who are more aware of the whole picture (and who prefer to offer constructive advice/support rather than criticism/insults).

I don't know if you have already sought there advice, but if you are on Facebook, the group https://www.facebook.com/groups/374160792599484/?fref=ts should be able to give you some immediate coping strategies, and advice on where to go from here (all comments are responded to by an admin, most of whom are very experienced behaviourists/trainers, before being posted on the wall, so the first reply is always going to be reputable advice!).  I think this situation really is beyond the scope of pet owner forum advice as far as how to manage things - though please keep posting for support, as I can only begin to imagine the range of emotions you are going through right now...  

[Penelope]

I have just one more thing to add :

    (OK, 3 more things!)

xxxxxxx