CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: MillicentWight on May 05, 2023, 01:09:39 PM
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I am alone now with Willow following bereavement and finding it quite difficult looking after her through no fault of hers. She is my only reason to keep going now but today I have just been told by the vet that she has diabetes and I should consider having her put to sleep for my sake. I know it will be expensive but can anybody tell me how difficult it would be for me to give her insulin injections twice a day? She is nine years old now and has been nearly blind since about a year old following ulcers in her eyes and operations. Also she is overweight and fairly deaf from warts in her ears and also on her body.
I have an appointment at the vets later today when he will talk to me but there is no way that I can agree to have her put to sleep. I have been so alone since last October, not seeing or speaking anyone from week to week. Would I be doing wrong to try and keep her? At the moment she has a great thirst and I have to leave my door open all night so she can get into the back garden.
I would be really grateful for any comments please.
Bob
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Firstly I am so sorry for your loss, and no it is certainly not wrong to try and keep Willow. I certainly would not let her go without a darn good try to keep her. While this is a blow and you mention she has some deafness and sight loss I feel that is a part of growing old and just like us, Willow will have adapted to this.
When we are told by a vet the suddeness and shock kicks in. We naturally panic and wonder if we can cope. It was the same when I was told about Ollie and his illness, he was 13 - my hubby was asked did we want to let him go as at the time he was sedated at the vets after a procedure. We said no and brought him home. Yes it was hard ( no lnjections ) with medication and diet changes etc but it became the norm and we had cherished days with a dog who was still wagging his tail and loving his meals and small walks for two more years.
I would discuss with your vet the medication options and make it clear you would like to try and learn to address this, ask does he think Willow can be helped with injections. If Willow can be helped with medication then some of the thirst may decline also I would ask about her diet etc. At first I am sure the vetinary nurse would be able to show you several times how to inject.
In the end all we can offer our cockers is our love and doing the best for them.
They are such loving dogs I am sure Willow will try and give it a go if you can.
Take care
Julie
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The PDSA have a video on giving injection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RGvQz_X29A
Worth a look.
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I wish that members would say what area they live in (I know there is an option but not everyone uses it). I am sure there is someone is your area who could reach out to you and give you support. I know that I would if someone needed help. I know that we live in a time when not everyone is honest and there are so many scams about and I understand the need to be wary but it upsets me that you have been on your own all this time with Willow. Jaysmumagain has given you some super advice. Don’t be rushed into making a decision that you are not comfortable with. You will be given advice by your vet on how to inject and after a few tries under supervision I am sure you will manage. Virtual hugs to you :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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I can only second what both Jaysmumagain and Vixen have said, - great advice!
I always believe in trusting your instincts where our animals are concerned, I had to have my last two dogs put to sleep but somehow I knew when the time was right and I think you will too.
Vets won’t put a healthy dog down but I think there is probably a point when they could reasonably justify it if the dog has any health issues and they might therefore ask if that’s what you want, however it doesn’t necessarily mean that they can‘t enjoy life, often for a good while longer, so its certainly worth having another discussion.
I do hope you can get some reassurance from your vet’s practice and remember there are always people on here if you just need a bit of moral support, I know its not quite the same as face to face but I‘ve found comfort here on more than one occasion.
Sending :bigarmhug: to you both.
Jayne x
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My condolences on your loss, I am sorry. Personally, I would explore things with the vet before making a decision. Diabetes can be managed, although it may take a while to get the dosage sorted. If you feel you can do the injections, then why not. Willow will have adapted to poorer vision and hearing, dogs are way more adaptable than we are. Regarding the ongoing cost, it may be worth looking to see if you can buy the medication online. Your vet will need to give you a prescription, and that will be chargeable, maybe £20ish. Regarding her weight, the days are longer, the weather is bound to improve, I hope. If Willow feels a bit better with medication, then maybe more walks? It would get you both out, and that can only be a good thing. Keep in touch and let us know how you get on. Best wishes.
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Sorry to read of your loss and of Willow's diagnosis. Can't offer any advice, but wish you all the best in finding help for Willow.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Willow is in the vets at this time. I took her in at 8.00am and the vet got me to give her the first injection, 10 units of insulan?
She will remain there being monitored the rest of today. Hope she will be home this evening or I will be so lonely.
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Wishing you and Willow the best news :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Hello there Bob
I do hope you will have your girl home soon and she has taken well to the monitoring.
Sending all my best wishes that it's good news later today.
Julie and little Harry.
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I’m really hoping that Willows diabetes can brought under control very soon. They are such a huge worry when unwell. And it’s so hard when they are away from us at the vets. Thinking of you.
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My previous cocker, Jazz, was diagnosed with diabetes when he was 10. Like you the vet suggested he was PTS and I was both shocked and horrified. I had lost my husband and the thought of losing Jazz so soon afterwards was unbearable. Fortunately I had retired and was at home with him to keep letting him go out for toileting as the diabetes does make them drink a lot. I managed the injections well. The veterinary nurse suggested I practice with a syringe of water on an orange first of all. I had to keep taking Jazz back to the vets regularly for blood tests to adjust the insulin dose accordingly. I'm not saying it was easy but I managed to keep my boy for another two years. I send my very best wishes to you and Willow. :bigarmhug:
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So sorry to hear how you are struggling with loss and loneliness. Our dogs are so important when we are alone. I just echo what everyone else has said, and am sure you would be able to,learn to give injections. It's amazing what we can do when we have to.
Shall be thinking of you and Willow and hoping that she goes on being your friend for much longer.
Lesley and Dylan
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My previous cocker, Jazz, was diagnosed with diabetes when he was 10. Like you the vet suggested he was PTS and I was both shocked and horrified. I had lost my husband and the thought of losing Jazz so soon afterwards was unbearable. Fortunately I had retired and was at home with him to keep letting him go out for toileting as the diabetes does make them drink a lot. I managed the injections well. The veterinary nurse suggested I practice with a syringe of water on an orange first of all. I had to keep taking Jazz back to the vets regularly for blood tests to adjust the insulin dose accordingly. I'm not saying it was easy but I managed to keep my boy for another two years. I send my very best wishes to you and Willow. :bigarmhug:
This is why I think our friendly forum is so useful, when things looks bleak and there seems no way forward, it's lovely to have encouraging news from friendly folk who can give hope, advice and optimism :luv: :bigarmhug:
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Thank you to everyone for the advice and support. Really apreciate every one of the replies and can't say how much it has helped me. Strangely just a few weeks ago I was asked by my diabetic nurse that I should agree to go onto insulin for my diabetes and I feel like I am using poor Willow now for a practice run. I am injecting Willow with 10 units morning and evening the only problem is when inserting the needle she will suddenly try and leap out of the way. I just hope things will get better as I am frightened the long thin needle might break off inside of her. Also two meals twelve hours apart are very difficult for both of us as she knows if I am eating anywhere in the house and she also knows how to make me feel very guilty for not sharing. I just feel so sad for her.
I will post again just to say how things are going. She goes back to the vets on the 15th and will stay in all day.
Bob
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Well done! I‘m not sure I‘d have the courage to give an injection but then we don’t know what we’re capable of until the need arises. The important thing is, you‘ve made a start and I‘m sure things will get easier as Willows adapts to the routine and you become more relaxed about it.
Sorry if its a silly suggestion, I don’t have any experience of diabetes, but is she allowed any sort of treats which you could use as reward to make the injection positive? My dog has a weight problem and I give him bits of vegetables, e.g. carrots either slightly cooked in a bit of broth or water with a scrap of meat in , or put into a plastic bag with a bit of something tasty, that will add flavour. I cut tiny cubes as training treats for his physiotherapy but he gets larger pieces of carrot of cucumber or similar as a snack inbetween. It might just help as a distraction ?
Please don’t feel guilty, cockers are masters at looking at you and making you feel wretched, but you’re doing a great job and I‘m sure if you were able to ask Willow, she‘d be quite happy for you to gain your injecting skills on her, you‘re a team and she‘d want to help you as you‘re helping her. ;)
Do keep us posted!
All the very best to you both! :luv:
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Do you have a smooth wipe clean surface at cocker nose height? A wall tile or similar. If you were to smooth a tiny amount of Primula cheese or pate on there it might keep Willow occupied while you can do the injection. It would give you a chance to both get used to doing the injections.
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Not going so well. Two bent needles, one injection into her fur and one needle into my finger when she moves so suddenly.
I will talk it over with the vet on Monday when she goes into the animal hospital all day for tests but at this moment I am not at all sure how long I can keep this up for.
Bob
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Oh dear, I‘m sorry to hear that but do try not to become disheartened, I‘m sure its just a matter of practise and you gaining confidence. Hopefully your vet will be able to help and reassure you, (he probably had a few bent needles as well when he was training, ;) ) Might there be a nurse at the vets practice who could supervise you for a few days and possibly give you some tips about how to approach Willow or how to hold her? It would mean a few extra visits to the vet but if it helps, then its worth it.
Do keep us posted, wishing you all the best for Monday‘s visit, :luv:
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epj has suggested smearing some goodies on a wall but I use a licky mat. About £5 to buy off ebay or elsewhere. Its made of silicone, it can be used on glass, a tiled floor even the bath when bathing. They stick really well as they have good suction. Maisie hates being dried after a dirty walk and the mat really helps as she is so busy licking, she doesn’t notice me drying her :005:
https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/lickimat-buddy-boredom-buster
I have put the link to pets at home because i couldn’t work out how to put an ebay link up, but they are cheaper on ebay. Just type into the search licky mat and lots of choice will come up.
If Willow is concentrating on licking, hopefully she won’t notice the needle.
I use cheap pate or soft cheese for my dogs.
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good idea with the lickimat, I hadn't thought of that! I really hope you can get this sorted. do you know if there is a Blue Cross or PDSA branch near you, they might be happy to help you with the injections until you both get the hang of it. It will take you both a while to get the hang of it. Try not to feel too disappointed.
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I imagine it is very nerve racking to stick a needle in your best pal, and you're not feeling very relaxed about it. It will take a bit of getting used to, but we are all rooting for you. The licky mat sounds like a good suggestion 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞
Lesley
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The primula cheese spread and the licky mat are both excellent ideas and I may have to try them but after another bent needle last night this morning I moved her food dish to the corner of the kichen so she had nowhere to leap to and all went perfectly.
Think I forgot to mention that the vet suggested putting her food down and when she is half way through eating it I grab her by the scruf of the neck and in goes the needle. Well she didn't say it quite like that but it does seem to work sometimes at least.
Thanks to all for the ongoing support and I will continue to persevere for as long as I can anyway.
Bob
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I imagine it is very nerve racking to stick a needle in your best pal, and you're not feeling very relaxed about it. It will take a bit of getting used to, but we are all rooting for you. The licky mat sounds like a good suggestion 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞
Lesley
The primula cheese spread and the licky mat are both excellent ideas and I may have to try them but after another bent needle last night this morning I moved her food dish to the corner of the kichen so she had nowhere to leap to and all went perfectly.
Think I forgot to mention that the vet suggested putting her food down and when she is half way through eating it I grab her by the scruf of the neck and in goes the needle. Well she didn't say it quite like that but it does seem to work sometimes at least.
Thanks to all for the ongoing support and I will continue to persevere for as long as I can anyway.
Bob
f
Oh well done! :lol2: There‘s little that will stop a cocker enjoying food even a „pain in the neck“!!
I‘ve just been looking at a variety of lick mats here on Amazon Germany, made me giggle to see how many of them use cockers on their adverts, the manufactures have obviously already realized their suitability for marketing „distraction by food“ !!!!
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I took Willow into the vets yesterday morning at 8.30 as arranged and they promised to call me late afternoon to say I could pick her up. I had heard nothing by 6.0 pm so I called them and they said I could go and pick her up. When I got there I was told they had an emergency and would have to wait a few minutes but in fact it was over an hour and no apology from the vet. Anyway the good news is that they are happy with Willow's blood sugars and the nurse said she has a near perfect 'u curve' and I can reduce
the insulan from 10 units twice a day down to 9 units twice a day. Also she is now allowed a little kibble at mid day and again at 4pm. She has another appointment in two weeks time but at 9.15 am instead of 8.30 am so she will have to wait longer for her breakfast.
Next time she goes she will be seeing a different vet again and I have just been told that I will not see him, the nurse will come and take her away and I will not see her again until the evening. Not happy especially as Willow is nearly blind and she will be bumping into things and hurting herself all day I am sure. I spend my life 'steering'Willow away from harm and sharp objects and I know they are not that careful. By her next appointment in two weeks it will have cost around £700 but I will try and keep it going as long as possible.
Bob
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When my Marley had to have regular blood tests for her thyroid medication, I was told that she would be taken from me, taken into a back room, muzzled and then blood taken. I told them I wanted to stay with her while blood being taken. I was told no, that is not possible as owners get too upset. I again insisted that I would hold her while blood taken as I knew Marley would prefer that. From then on that is how it went. I may have come across as assertive but I was thinking of my girl. I think you should insist that you go in with Willow and you want to take her home after she has been seen and you want to be able to talk to the vet. . You are the customer and paying the vet’s wages and they should try to accommodate your wishes and think of Willow’s best interests.
You could ring up before your appointment and say you are not happy at their suggestions, explain about WIllow’s needs, how you want the appointment to go and just be assertive ;)
I am pleased Willow is doing well on her medication. Just wondered where you get her diabetes medication from? You can get it online with a vet’s prescription. You will have to pay for the prescription but it may be a way to save money. If you explain to the vet about the cost, I am sure they will understand. The vet will still be paid for her regular checks after all.
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I think you should insist that you go in with Willow and you want to take her home after she has been seen and you want to be able to talk to the vet. . You are the customer and paying the vet’s wages and they should try to accommodate your wishes and think of Willow’s best interests.
Totally agree! The priority is Willow‘s welfare not the convenience of the practice staff, its quite in order for you to be insistent.
Good to hear things are looking better.
Wishing you both all the best. :luv:
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That's really good news, well done. I have to agree about staying with Willow. You are the customer, and Willow's welfare is the priority. I used to ask for an appointment with my preferred vet, as I personally think that continuity is important. Anyway, the main thing is you and Willow are doing great. :luv:
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Thanks again for all of your support. I know I will have to accept things the way they are or risk not having a vet at all for poor Willow.
Bob
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Im so pleased to hear that Willows latest results are good news. And that she can enjoy a little of her kibble at extra points of the day. It’s so hard leaving them with the vet but it must be especially so when you have to worry about her lack of sight. I wouldn’t hesitate to ask for a particular vet if there is one that you prefer to see with Willow. Many people do this. It’s so important to build a relationship with the vet when there is a long term or more serious issue. It will be a long day for you while she’s at the vets but just keep looking forward to that happy reunion at the end of the day.. Love to Willow.
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Pleased and relieved to read things are getting better for Willow. :luv:
I would agree that seeing the same vet for something ongoing is important. It may be worth writing a letter to the manager of the practice and your preferred vet stating your concerns (send it recorded delivery so they cannot pretend they didn't receive it) and ask what they intend to do to accommodate your's and most importantly Willow's needs. You may find it is an over zealous receptionist or nurse laying down the law - rather like the receptionist at a doctor's surgery can try it on with their patients. I have had this happen to me.
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Firstly I am so pleased to hear that Willow is responding....although not to great about vet practice.
In the North West Cheshire Shrop - we have a non for profit called https://www.animaltrust.org.uk/ and there areas https://www.animaltrust.org.uk/clinics/
My niece who is 18 and still at college took her dog and when she asked about the cost the nurse asked what she did she had to match half the cost....I am still not sure how the pricing works, but worth looking at. My neighbour also goes and says the Charity is wonderful, they are open to everyone.
Sometimes these big vets are not easy due to rota of too many vets...my neighbour used to go to Pets at Home and never saw the same vet and one was Spanish and she felt dreadful that she had to say she could understand her accent.
Finger crossed all goes well. One point I did wonder was if they are checking Willows levels through the day that is why they want the whole day with her...just a thought.
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All going well so far today except for another bent needle and as soon as I had given Willow the insulan she brought all of her breakfast up. I was really worried and wondering what to do but on looking round her breakfast had disappeared again. Must talk to the vet as this could have been very serious giving her insulan with no food.
I had a phone call from the vets yesterday morning and it seems that my moaning paid off as I had an apology and she said that Willow will be seeing the original vet when I bring her in next time. They really are quite good and I believe the only one on the island that provide a 24 hour emergency service and yes they do have a rota system with quite a large number of vets. When Willow spends the whole day at the vet hospital it is to see how the medication is performing. I take her food with her and they give her breakfast and then check her blood sugars throughout the day. They are looking for what they call a 'U Curve' where the bottom of the curve represents the lowest blood sugars and the tops obviously the highest. She had an almost perfect curve with no spikes and they were so pleased and said that I must have been looking after her well.
I know most of you have been through much worse with your dogs in the past and I just want to thank you all again for the advice and support you have given to Willow and myself. We are surviving.
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Bob
Glad of the update, and that you will see the usual vet, what you are going through is tough, it is all so tough what we go through because we love our four legged companions. It can't be measured as it is so concerning to us and that is why we all understand when maybe someone who has not got the devotion of a beloved dog don't understand.
The worse times are when you need support and that is what Cockersonline has given me over the years.
Take care and hugs to Millie
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I can only echo what Jaysmumagain has said. True, we‘ve all gone through things, whether they are „worse“ or not is not measurable ;) whenever our little friends are poorly, irrespective of how seriously, its always tough and we all try to help where we can, I couldn’t have got through Humphrey‘s troubles without COL, just being able to write my worries down and know there were people out there that were pulling for us helped enormously. We invest all our strength and love helping our pets get better but it can be exhausting and its so important to share the load to keep our spirits up.
I think you’re doing a great job, even if you‘re still having a bit of problem with the injections (and hats off for even trying!) you’re giving Willow all the love and support and care she could wish for and that’s what really counts.
Glad you‘ve managed to sort the situation with the vets.
All the best for you both, keep us posted!
:luv: :luv: Jayne x
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Oh that's a better response from the vet practice. At least now you have a better understanding of what they are doing and the whole thing sound better for both of you. It doesn't matter what others are dealing with, when it's your dog, that's a really difficult thing. You and Willow seem to be getting the hang of things, it will take a while to get it down to a fine art, but that will come.
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I’m glad the vets have responded to your understandable concerns and I hope Willows results at the next appointment are just as encouraging. Keep positive and love to Willow.
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Really pleased you got an apology from your vets and they are being more considerate to Willow’s needs and yours :D
You are doing so well regarding the injections and Willow is responding well to her medication.
COL is wonderful for when you are worried about anything. No one judges you, its members have years and years of experience to offer advice and comfort.
A great caring community :D
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Only experience I have had re diabetes is with a cat and thankfully he was straight forward but I guess we find a way for our pets. In cats its easier re meals as while you give 12 hours apart you don't have to deal with meals. Hope all goes well from now on
There is a canine forum re diabetes online - its from USA but then you can find out differences in meds using google
https://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/