feeding my new cocker

[hilhames]

I think my time is up - this is my third question tonight, I must go to bed!  I think I will need tranquilliisers when I get my dog!
My new puppy which is coming at 8 weeks, is fed on PetPlan.  So that's fine and we will stick with it initially.  However the breeder said totally up to me what I feed.  She feeds Pet Plan and tripe from 3 months. Well I won't be doing that.  I don't plan to feed raw or food I cook myself.  But, that said, am completely open to what make of food I use and whether its dried, wet or a mix of two.  I looked at whichdogfood.co.uk which I thought helpful but couldn't get up a list of possibles because I don't know weight of dog.  In any case, at this stage, it will probably simply bewilder me.
We are in the lucky position of the cost of the food not being too much of an issue.   However, I am looking for a food that should keep  my dog healthy and happy without me going for 'most expensive range' just because it might happen to have one tiny extra in it that there is no  evidence will give my dog an extra couple of years of life!
A few months ago I looked after a dog that had a mix of dry food and wet.  I don't know if that is  because the wet wouldn't have been nutritionally complete otherwise or because its more interesting for a dog to be fed that way.  I really don't mind , although all other things being equal a food that gives well formed poos would be a bonus for me!
Feeding a commercial diet what do I give to help keep teeth clean, once the puppy has some!

[rednblack]

If you're changing your new puppy's food, you'll have to find the food which suits her best.  There are two or three online guides which compare the different commercial foods on the market, but none of them is actually compiled by a qualified canine nutritionist, so they are only guides.  You'll find that there are at least as many opinions as to the best dog food as there are dog owners  .
 
FWIW my pup (last summer) came on Royal Canin and Butchers tripe, stayed on it until he went down to 2 meals a day, then went on to Nature Diet for breakfast and RC+tripe for dinner.  He now has raw meat and biscuit    for breakfast every day and Arden Grange / Nature Diet on alternate days for his dinner.
 
Keeping teeth clean (puppy will come with a full starter set of teeth, and will change them over the first few months for a bigger set, which will be extensively road-tested): nylabones or antler chews (you can get "easy" ones for puppies), or if you're not squeamish there are dried tripe sticks or bulls pizzles.  People who feed raw will always recommend raw bones, which are very good but if you're not a raw feeder can be difficult to come to terms with. 

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

Welcome!
Whatever food you do change to you have to do it gradually - mixing a small amount of the new food each day and increasing the new food and decreasing the old food (over about 7-10 days). The chance of stomach upsets in pups is very high anyway, but changes in food can make it worse. If the pup does have bad diarrhea boil up some chicken and rice and feed this for a couple of days until it's back to normal.

I put my pup on VetEssentials to start with and he pooed about 8 times a day! I changed him onto Barking Heads Puppy Days and it was down to 3-5 per day - much easier and better for getting him to sleep through the night (which he didn't do until he was about 4-5 months). Some dry foods have lots more filler than others, which results in more pooing! There are lots of good quality foods that aren't that expensive. I now feed him entirely on Acana Wild Prairie, which has 60% protein and he doesn't seem to mind only eating that (it works out at about 75p per day as I buy 13kg bags). Some people recommend a variety, but my dog seems fine on just one food. Some of his teeth, having said that, are covered in plaque at the age of 15 months, but I think that's possibly more to do with genetics and luck than diet (some of things people swear by to keep their dog's teeth clean don't work on mine). Try to get the dog used to a toothbrush and toothpaste at an early age (wish I had - doing the training now, getting him used to the brush a couple of times each day). Same for grooming - still struggle with mine - have to bribe him with Primula cheese in a tube! I use his kibble as treats from his daily food amount - great for training (but use high value treats (eg liver) for recall training).

You'll get lots of different recommendations on here for food - there's so much choice and so many good ones on offer!

Changing the subject slightly... try to get the jabs done the day you get the pup, as you'll go stir crazy not being able to take the dog out properly for the first few weeks. I socialized mine by carrying him around with me around the local streets and parks, as well as on public transport - he met all sorts of people and heard all sorts of noises.

What kind/colour cocker are you getting? Do you have any pictures?

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

Charlie was on James Well Beloved (JWB) when I got him...however (other dogs seem to suffer the same) the smells he emitted from his bum were enough to clear a room...He's never ever ever been that bad. Charlie is really fussy, we have tried lots, we tried Wainwrights wet food...then applaws wet (it looks and smells nice but it's REALLY expensive)...and we have settled on raw food. He still enjoys it a year later; he's never going to be enthusiastic about food, but he does like his raw.

The only kibble Charlie will eat is applaws; it's a good brand.

BUT you have to go with what is best for your puppy and not ours.

It's also not advisable to mix wet and dry foods together (they can have 1 meal of wet and 1 meal of dry - but not in the same meal).

[Jane57]

Charlie was on James Well Beloved (JWB) when I got him...however (other dogs seem to suffer the same) the smells he emitted from his bum were enough to clear a room...He's never ever ever been that bad. Charlie is really fussy, we have tried lots, we tried Wainwrights wet food...then applaws wet (it looks and smells nice but it's REALLY expensive)...and we have settled on raw food. He still enjoys it a year later; he's never going to be enthusiastic about food, but he does like his raw.

The only kibble Charlie will eat is applaws; it's a good brand.

BUT you have to go with what is best for your puppy and not ours.

It's also not advisable to mix wet and dry foods together (they can have 1 meal of wet and 1 meal of dry - but not in the same meal).

I never knew that Emma, I thought it was just  you shouldnt mix raw with kibble.
I often add a little bit of mackerel or salmon mousse etc to rileys kibble, that would constitute mixing wet and dry wouldnt it.

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

Charlie was on James Well Beloved (JWB) when I got him...however (other dogs seem to suffer the same) the smells he emitted from his bum were enough to clear a room...He's never ever ever been that bad. Charlie is really fussy, we have tried lots, we tried Wainwrights wet food...then applaws wet (it looks and smells nice but it's REALLY expensive)...and we have settled on raw food. He still enjoys it a year later; he's never going to be enthusiastic about food, but he does like his raw.

The only kibble Charlie will eat is applaws; it's a good brand.

BUT you have to go with what is best for your puppy and not ours.

It's also not advisable to mix wet and dry foods together (they can have 1 meal of wet and 1 meal of dry - but not in the same meal).

I never knew that Emma, I thought it was just  you shouldnt mix raw with kibble.
I often add a little bit of mackerel or salmon mousse etc to rileys kibble, that would constitute mixing wet and dry wouldnt it.

I'm guessing a little mixing wouldn't matter though. Charlie gets his raw and then gets cooked tit-bits (from my mam!!!) straight after. I figure so long as there isn't huge mixing then it's ok.

[Emilyoliver]

I think it's mixing raw with dry as it is believed they're digested at different rates. Saying that, I don't personally believe mixing them is necessarily disastrous - just that some dogs may have upset stomachs from it.

[Jane57]

I think thats the thing its raw and kibble, not dry kibble and wet that cant be mixed.
Some kibble manufacturers actually make wet food as toppers for kibble.

[Archie bean]

Charlie was on James Well Beloved (JWB) when I got him...however (other dogs seem to suffer the same) the smells he emitted from his bum were enough to clear a room...He's never ever ever been that bad. Charlie is really fussy, we have tried lots, we tried Wainwrights wet food...then applaws wet (it looks and smells nice but it's REALLY expensive)...and we have settled on raw food. He still enjoys it a year later; he's never going to be enthusiastic about food, but he does like his raw.

The only kibble Charlie will eat is applaws; it's a good brand.

BUT you have to go with what is best for your puppy and not ours.

It's also not advisable to mix wet and dry foods together (they can have 1 meal of wet and 1 meal of dry - but not in the same meal).

I never knew that Emma, I thought it was just  you shouldnt mix raw with kibble.
I often add a little bit of mackerel or salmon mousse etc to rileys kibble, that would constitute mixing wet and dry wouldnt it.

Wet mixed with kibble is fine. They are both cooked. You shouldn't mix kibble with raw, those are the two that digest differently because one is cooked and one is raw.

[Homebird]

It is difficult to decide - I am getting our new puppy on Friday and intend to change to Robbie's holistic with the Luath kibble made by the same people.  She is on pedigree puppy and eukunaba at the moment and I am not too keen on the ingredients in them but it will be trial and error - most manufacturers will send you a couple of samples so you can see if the puppy will eat some of it - but then you could buy the big bag and find it doesn't suit the dog - or it has gone off it.

My previous dog just hated plain dry biscuit and would go for 3 days without eating as a young dog unless it had a sardine or gravy on it!  But she then would eat almost anything and it never bothered her how quickly the food was changed.  But I won't risk a quick change with the new puppy - I will introduce just a spoonful of the new at a time and cut down spoonful by spoonful of the old.

I can't get the pedigree puppy here and luckily she has had some naturediet so the start will be eukanuba and naturediet for a week or so and then grandual introduction of Robbie's.  She will probably hate it or be upset by it and I will have to try again.

[hilhames]

Oh, this is all awful, I just want someone to tell me what to do!   I feel as though I need a PhD in dog nutrition.  I really want to stick to commercial but I cant just continue with what the breeder is currently doing because she introduces tripe at about 8 weeks.
How does anyone buy a puppy, the feeding is the thing that scares me most.
Isnt there a view across the vetinary world or does every vet have their favourite?  Someone here mentioned a food with 60% protein is that the standard - surely there must be a view about percentages of what is in the food , at least.   And some sort of evidence base for all this?
Is the puppy going to poo in the night or just wee do you think?

[hilhames]

contd...
re teeth, think I had better try the cleaning and also give nylabones or one of the others for cleaning.  Am not squeamish any will do - is it one of whatever you choose after each meal?  Is it part of their calories or not?   Is one preferable to others or are they basically all doing same job?

Also, don't intend to go out much without dog in first few months but will be necessary at times.....I think I read you give them a 'kong'  What on earth is that?

Going back to food, are most a/v at Supermarkets or Pets at Home or do you order thru specialist suppliers?

Don't have a photo yet as breeder hasn't decided which dog am having as she is keeping one golden girl and I am having the other. Couldn't tell them apart anyway at 6 weeks.  Agree about socialising and getting vaccination on day one.  When 'walking round with dog' in the first few weeks will it wriggle if want s to wee or worse?  But, till had second vaccination at 10/11 weeks can't put it down can I?  What if it wants to wee and I am on the bus?   Seriiously, that's bound to happen to me isn't it!

[JennyBee]

This is a kong:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kong-T2-Classic-Toy-Medium/dp/B000AYN7LU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376524340&sr=8-1&keywords=Kong

You can fill it with all sorts of goodies, from kibble to frozen yogurt!

Tbh, I wouldn't worry too much at this stage . Take your time and have a look at what's on offer - there is a lot! I have a few things I personally look for in a food:

No animal or vegetable derivatives
Named meat source
The meat source should be the main ingredient - ie first on the list, and it should be a high percentage of the overall content.
No fillers (maize, beet pulp etc)
Hypoallergenic (because my dog has skin and ear problems )

That is some of the things I look for. Bear in mind that not all foods will suit all dogs, so it may be a case of seeing what suits your pup.

Brodie is fed wet food only (NatureDiet), mostly as she is a fussy little madam. There are some excellent quality wet foods out there and they are complete foods, so no need to add anything. She gets chews (carrots these days) to help keep her teeth healthy. I order her food online, using Zooplus, but there are a few different sites that you can use, depending on what food you go for.

This link may provide you with some info, especially about protein levels, although I've not read it right through (it's thirty pages ) - it is by Orijen, which is an excellent food, but do bear that in mind as it may have some bias towards that particular food:

http://files.championpetfoods.com/ORIJEN_White_Paper.pdf

Ps: vets often have brands such as Hills or Purina on sale and will recommend them - but they are paid to do so; they aren't foods I like as despite their high prices their ingredients aren't the best.

I hope at least some of that makes sense and I haven't confused you further

[Archie bean]

Excellent reply from JennyBee. I looked for the same things in Archie's food and he is also wet fed.

I remember how bewildering the choice was. Just remember that there isn't one right answer, there are loads of brilliant foods. Just stick to what the breeder is using for now (minus the tripe) and try to enjoy getting to know your pup. They can be really challenging and hard work but also wonderful and rewarding. I was so worried about doing the right thing with Archie that I got myself in a right tizzy before he arrived. I think he picked up on my anxiety and it didnt help him settle at the very start. (He was my third puppy too!!)

Once she is settled in then consider your options. If she is eating well and enjoying the kibble then move her onto a better quality kibble. If she's not over keen on kibble then try mixing with a good quality wet food. If she starts spitting out the kibble and just eating the wet (this was the scenario with my Archie  ) then move her onto just wet. Plenty of chews, carrots, broccoli etc will keep her teeth clean. Some dogs have more problems than others. I have never had to clean the teeth of any of my dogs but my Dad had a cocker with dreadful teeth. He was full brother to one of mine and they ate the same food and had the same chews, he just had bad teeth and mine didn't. 

Don't worry. It's all a bit hit and miss in the early days as no two pups are alike. You will be absolutely fine. x

[hilhames]

Thank you Jenny and Archie

I didn't realise the petplan was kibble.  Is there any advantage to wet food over kibble in terms of quality - like for like?
Which gives the better formed and lesser no of poos.
I know that Naturediet is supposed to be very good....

The kong looks superb, Jenny,  but should I go for the small to start with rather than the medium?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kong-Puppy-Dogs-Chew-Small/dp/B0002AR18C/ref=sr_1_3?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1376563123&sr=1-3&keywords=kong

I am so frazzled but I plan to be organised and calm when dog arrives which is why am trying to sort stuff now
Nature Diet as an example - can you get just a couple of sachets at PAH or a supermarket, just to try?  The naturediet has a puppy version?
What do you feed your cocker,  Archie Bean?