Author Topic: 'Foreign' Breeding  (Read 478 times)

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Offline Lobo do Mar

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'Foreign' Breeding
« on: January 22, 2021, 08:20:04 AM »
Hi, this is just out of curiosity, from someone who knows nothing about breeding.

I live in Portugal, and Salty is an English Cocker Spaniel (show strain), although we dont know much about his parents.

'English Cocker Spaniels' from Portugal (or the US or wherever) - how strong and recent is the actual 'genetic' link to the population of English Cocker Spaniels in the UK?
And how much are similarities just from breeding to the standard?

I guess another way of asking this is, 'how much gene exchange is there between the populations of this breed in different countries? (especially, specifically, Portugal?)

The root of this curiosity comes from the 'general knowledge' here that Golden Cockers are the badly behaved 'black sheep' ones, but I haven't heard this said in the UK
I know its just anecdotal, but my question still piques my curiosity

Thanks

Leigh

Offline cazza

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Re: 'Foreign' Breeding
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2021, 10:34:39 AM »
Hi

Sorry I have no idea, hope someone pops along that can provide you with some info or point you in the right direction to find answers to your questions  :D

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: 'Foreign' Breed
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2021, 03:49:06 PM »
Oh tell me about it! I live in Germany and are faced with those sort of prejudices quite often. I think it stems back to the 60‘s and 70‘s when cockers were extremely popular, here at least. I imagine that the gene pool wasn‘t too big and the issue of „cocker rage“ came up. Coupled with the fact that cockers are pretty sensitive and don‘t react well to the sort if heavy handed training methods that were also acceptable at that time which no doubt accounted for a lot of cases of fear aggression, I think any cocker that got a bit nippy was instantly labled  as having cocker rage or being at the least very aggressive. I‘ve heard of groomers refusing to groom cockers and even my vet asked me if I‘d actually CHOSEN a cocker! I have to add that within a year he was greeting us with „oh here comes my favourite cocker!“
Here they‘re a bit like Marmite, people either adore them or hate them (usually because they‘ve never actually encountered one) even the celebrity dog trainers don‘t seem to take them seriously.
I googled some of the names on Humphrey‘s pedigree and found ancestors in Hungary, Spain and France although, strangely, non in UK.
The Federation Cynologique International might be able to provide you with breeding statistics.

Offline Lobo do Mar

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Re: 'Foreign' Breeding
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 09:05:51 AM »
Yes, definitely based on 60's and 70's 'cocker rage' here too.
Its just funny that the Golden ones are singled out as the worst ones here.

Also the fact that a lot of dogs here are just locked in gardens for their whole lives and very often left alone during the week - not good for a Cocker  :'(

We were warned against a Cocker by the vet too - especially as our daughter was around 8. She was right about the hassle though  :005:

Funny that you say that tho, from my experience of living in Germany with a dog, it is a very dog friendly country, I wish there was a Hundewiese culture here - 90% of the other dogs Salty sees here are those throwing themselves snarling against the fence between chasing their tails as we pass every other house  :'(

Cockers are very well known and well thought of here tho, generally (although, unfortunately having dogs is often like having a big car outside the property around here)

Interesting to know that Humphrey has international heritage, must be part of it to breed between countries? Or maybe only in Germany as the gene pool is smaller as they are not popular?

Unfortunately, The Federation Cynologique International didnt seem to have data on Portugal

Perhaps I should have just asked, 'how common is international breeding?'.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: 'Foreign' Breeding
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2021, 09:38:56 AM »
I wouldn‘t want to say Germany isn‘t dog friendly but certainly its a bit of a regional thing - I joined the German Cocker Facebook Group and they have a map of the country pinpointing where everyone lives. Here in Hesse (around Frankfurt Main) there are very few, the most are up north in what was formerly the British sector where no doubt the presence of British Military bases has had some influence.
There was a gold cocker being advertised on the local dogs home website last year and the description said „ suitable for someone who understands the problems involved with cockers! „ I was so incensed, I actually sent an email and  politely suggested that that sort of generalisation put all cockers waiting to be rehomed at a disadvantage. I received a rather curt reply from the manager saying that in her 40 years experience she had never experienced a cocker spaniel that wasn‘t aggresive! I didn‘t bother to reply!  >:D

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: 'Foreign' Breeding
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2021, 09:00:23 PM »
My cocker, Emily, I got in South Africa in 2001. She was all UK lines on dam side - Lynwater, and all portuguese breeding on  sire side - Stocdale. Stocdale used to be a well known kennel in Portugal and bred lots of show champions. If I remember rightly the Stocdale lines went back to lynwater dogs. The kennel I got Emily from imported particular dogs to enhance their lines. In both the uk and south Africa lines from different countries are imported and used in the breeding. Manacas is a Swedish kennel (I think) and dogs from here were brought to the uk and s.Africa. So, yes, quality dogs will be imported/ exported across borders to improve lines and widen the gene pool.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Lobo do Mar

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Re: 'Foreign' Breeding
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2021, 10:51:59 PM »
I searched for Stocdale and came up with this:
https://www.angelfire.com/co/stocdale/portindex.html
Seems they are/were 10 km from my house!
I need a Dog Breeding for Dummies article to learn about lines etc, any recommendations
Like I said, its just my Geek nature - no wish to breed, one Salty is enough for anyone :)
Love him to bits

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: 'Foreign' Breeding
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2021, 03:26:29 AM »
This is the sa kennel my dogs came from. And Emily’s parents  :luv:  Ricky was beautiful  :luv: 

I just learned about lines through research (because am a bit of an anorak  :005:). There is a useful cocker database to use as a starting point - try this: https://cockerspanieldatabase.info/en/
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Lobo do Mar

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Re: 'Foreign' Breeding
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2021, 11:18:42 PM »
@emilyoliver

Thanks, that site gave me an idea - seems that there is a lot of international breeding, populations are not at all distinct