Author Topic: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives  (Read 3168 times)

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Offline JohnMcL

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2021, 01:26:25 AM »

The main health benefits seem to be cancers of uterus/womb; obviously this risk is removed entirely but I don't think it is a massive problem anyway. Mammary cancer is more of a problem, but I don't believe speying makes a difference to that.

Oscar22.

My research is leading me to agree. Somewhere I’ve read the speying reduces the risk of Mammary Cancer but I don’t know by how much and I don’t have the stats for MC to start with.
What really surprised me were the mass of negative risks of speying / castration etc.
Have you come to a decision or nearing one please?
I know you need to make a decision far sooner than I, so far the risks outweigh the benefit for us. Although I will keep reading.
Thanks.
John.

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2021, 01:57:09 AM »
Thanks for the links TooFast.

I’m changing my vet immediately.

John.

Offline Toofast

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2021, 02:01:06 PM »
Your welcome. ;)

Offline rubyduby

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2021, 12:43:33 PM »
My girl is 2 and a half, and I am deliberating over if I should spay or not, she seems to have a phantom pregnancy and then a coupe of months later we go thro it all again with her real season, i have enquired about keyhole spay which is a smaller op (2 small incisions) they take away the ovaries and leave the womb...so less of a massive op, but.......?

Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2021, 02:43:18 PM »
I have never had a female so cannot comment other than to say I have had Ollie and my previous dogs have been to vets that seem obsessed with neutering. So much so that I have left the practice.

But phoning you John when Nutty is 5 months to me is a disgrace, and would have me suggesting to the vet had he considered the snip for himself.  It also rattles me that many rescue do it mandatory.  It smack's that all owners are irresponsible and can't control there dogs.

I realize that we just want what is best for our fury babies and naturally we choose to listen to our vets, Ollie's vet will have a tussle with me this week as at nearly 14 his annual booster is due - but as he has been on steroids for 7 months and the lowering of immune system effect I shall query the need - which if I declined also makes his pet insurance invalid unless the vet agrees with me and does her research.

And that is where the choice lies in research.  I hope Oscar and John are able to make there own informed opinions and am sure others on COL will be able to advise.

Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2021, 03:24:57 PM »
I have never had a female so cannot comment other than to say I have had Ollie and my previous dogs have been to vets that seem obsessed with neutering. So much so that I have left the practice.

But phoning you John when Nutty is 5 months to me is a disgrace, and would have me suggesting to the vet had he considered the snip for himself.  It also rattles me that many rescue do it mandatory.  It smack's that all owners are irresponsible and can't control there dogs.

I realize that we just want what is best for our fury babies and naturally we choose to listen to our vets, Ollie's vet will have a tussle with me this week as at nearly 14 his annual booster is due - but as he has been on steroids for 7 months and the lowering of immune system effect I shall query the need - which if I declined also makes his pet insurance invalid unless the vet agrees with me and does her research.

And that is where the choice lies in research.  I hope Oscar and John are able to make there own informed opinions and am sure others on COL will be able to advise.

Well said Julie!! I agree with you entirely.
I remember Mari saying that in Norway, it‘s illegal for a vet to castrate/spey, without a valid reason and upon checking, I found that the same applies here in Germany. Although I‘m not actually sure what constitutes a „valid reason“  the fact that a vet can‘t perform the operation on a whim or, worse still,  to boost business does at least require that owners are given an adequate explanation of pros and cons.
It  took me years before I realized its actually ok to question, even argue my point with both vets and doctors and not let myself be intimidated by a white coat and a stethoscope - (its probably actually an age thing when I started to  realize that most of them are younger than my own kids! :005: ) At the end if the day, we‘re their paying customers..... ;)
 And don‘t even get me going on the subject of vaccinations......  :argue:        :005:

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2021, 12:45:24 AM »
Hi, thanks JaysMum, bizzyLizzy, Ruby & Vixen. I’ve decided to not spay/spey unless there’s a good medical reason. If Nutty suffers with phantom pregnancies or other complications I’d do it but I’ve not found enough benefit to mitigate the risk.
I’m glad vaccinations have been brought up, I’m going down the route of titre testing to see what defences Nutty already has before doing any more vaccines. We don’t have a new vet yet but I’m only going to go to one that supports the titre and who will supply the necessary letter to insurers so that insurance remains valid. I’m going to ask what their policy is around neutering telesales too!

Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2021, 10:04:44 AM »
Glad to hear John the titre testing is an idea, if you google you can find vets signed up for testing, I looked last year and the nearest to me was 30 miles away. But understand Vets for Pets does it now.
Just to mention I was told that it cant test antibodies for lepto only others.....sure someone will come up with correct advice who has gone down that route.

Jayne as for white coats - when you have been around them during your working life you soon realize they may require your respect as does anyone - but they certainly are no better than us (far from it :005:)

Have a good day folks
Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2021, 09:55:41 AM »
Hi JaysMumAgain,
Thanks for the titre testing advice, I’m googling now as I really want to have a vet opposed to waiting until we may need one. I think i found out about the testing from your research somewhere on the forum so another big thanks for that. I’m not anti vaccinations but I’m concerned about the volume of chemicals that we could easily avoid giving our pets. I’m going to find your old posts but I’d like to ask you if you went down the titre route or plan to. Or does anybody else please?
Thanks.
John.

Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2021, 10:40:32 AM »
Hi John

I didn't go down the route, Ollie is 14 this year and it was about about 2 years back that I saw titre testing on here.  That was when I looked around and nearest to me was 30 miles away.  So Ollie has had 12 years of vaccines yearly before I read about it, I think I would certainly rethink if I had a new dog.  So much of the facts online seem to be from the States.

I am not sure about the vaccine timeline but I believe it is the Lepto that does not last, I guess like the vaccines for covid :005: 

I would write titre or titre test in the search box on here located top right hand side under the slogan for Simple Machine forum, it will throw up the threads it's mentioned it.

Does Nutty have pet insurance as it asks dates on claim forms for vaccines.  So I assume the titre testing if required 3 yearly or whatever would need to be up to date.

Take care
Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2021, 02:50:41 PM »
I bought myself a book on vaccinations (unfortunately in German and there doesn‘t appear to be an English version, otherwise I‘d have recommended it!  >:().
As far as I am aware, the lepto a) doesn‘t last long and b) doesn‘t cover all strains. Things like Kennel cough are recommended here and was one of those which caused a „discussion“ :shades: with my vet. A lot of the initial vaccinations give protection for years and don‘t need to be refreshed as some vets would have you believe. I also think you need to weigh up the risks, depending on circumstances - country\ city dogs face different risk levels for example.
Just to clarify, (I’m always wary of starting a heated discussion, it IS a controversial subject! ;) ) I‘m not against vaccinations but I don’t think ALL of them are necessary and in my opinion, Titre testing is a great help in helping us decide when and what is necessary (same as test for worms instead of worming willy nilly).
 :D
 

Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2021, 08:45:56 PM »
So hubby took Ollie solo to the vets today and he was on his best behaviour ( hubby and Ollie :shades:)

Ollie was due 12 month check up and booster, but I told hubby to mention the concern around vaccine and Ollie's reduced immune system having read basically it is of little use when on steroids.
 
The vet said she agreed and having read his recent history it was not advised as would have such a reduced effect.  So no battle at the vets.  Possibly it will not sit well with insurance but as I expect the premiums to be un sustainable when renewal comes in I will take it one step at a time, after all in January life seemed so dark but my brave boy is still enjoying each day.

Now before you think I have overtaken the subject - hubby mentioned that the young vet was more keyed into the modern thinking and mentioned if insurance did question it she could write explain reason because the other tests  to check his immune system would not be helpful and I assume she meant titre testing. 

Sorry I have strayed away from main thread but thought John might check in.
Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed

Offline rubyduby

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2021, 09:07:17 PM »
As far as insurance goes my lot are happy to insure and unvaccinated dog, but you wont be covered if they get the illnesses that the vaccines cover, not sure if others are the same

Offline cazza

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2021, 02:58:29 PM »
As far as insurance goes my lot are happy to insure and unvaccinated dog, but you wont be covered if they get the illnesses that the vaccines cover, not sure if others are the same

Now you can’t put that and not tell us who you are insured with :shades: 

I used to have a great vet but they retired  :'(

I didn’t have my previous dogs booster  every year - if you can get hold of the leaflet that comes with the vaccine (like with a packet of paracetamol) they actually state every 3 years (or the one my previous vet used anyway)

Ash will get her one year booster and then it will be titre testing or not at all just hope my new vet is agreeable

Spaying, I will get Ash done as she also has an umbilical hernia so that will be done at the same time. I will book her in about 3 months after her first or second season

Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: Show Cocker Speying - Positives & Negatives
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2021, 04:44:01 PM »
Cazza it is only the lepto that is done yearly and the others every 3 years....or at least that is my understanding.

It is like a mine field.

found on line   Booster jabs for distemper, parvovirus and canine hepatitis are usually needed every three years. Booster jabs for leptospirosis are needed every year.
Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed