Cocker Specific Discussion > Genetics & Breeding

Genetics & colours

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Shell:
This might be a really stupid question but I read in one of the other threads that one litter had 5 gold puppies and 2 black puppies .... is it normal to have a mixture of colors in a littler like this ?

Does this say anything about the genetics or the family tree of the puppies ?

If a bitch is gold and the dog is god and they have had two litters of completely gold puppies does that mean that all the ancestors have been gold or is it just pot luck?

Sorry if I sound completely stupid ! I'm very ignorant on the matter.                    

Jane S:
Hi Shell

You don't sound stupid at all ;D Colour genetics in Cockers is quite complex because there are so many colours in the breed but I will try & explain the basics as simply as I can. You can get a number of different colours in a litter depending on what colour genes each parent carries. In Cockers, black is the dominant colour & all other colours are called "recessives". For a recessive colour to come through, both parents must carry the gene for that colour. Two dogs of the same recessive colour mated together can only produce puppies of that recessive colour.

Gold is a recessive colour so for gold puppies to be born, both parents must either be gold themselves or carry the gene for gold. Two gold parents will always produce all gold puppies (except in very rare circumstances). Two black parents can produce some gold puppies if both carry the gold gene - if only one parent carries the gold gene, then all the puppies will be black. A black dog mated to a gold bitch will produce all black puppies if he does not carry the gold gene, but if he does, then around half the litter will be gold. A gold litter resulting from two gold parents does not mean all the dogs in the pedigree have been gold - this would be very unlikely. It's the fact that two golds have been mated together which makes the resulting litter all gold, although there could well be solid black ancestors in the background & possibly other colours too.

Hope this helps. I can go into more detail if you want but don't want to blind you with too much science to begin with :D

Jane                    

FionaM:
Hi Jane

That's really interesting and colour genetics in cockers is something I know nothing about. Can you go into more detail, about parti-colours as well as solids  :)

I know that solid chocolate/liver is a really rare colour in show lines but where does it fit in?

I find this sort of stuff fascinating. I remember when I was doing biology at school and learning about hair and eye-colour in humans, I found it so interesting.

Thanks
Fiona  :)                    

*Jay*:
how do you know what colours a dog carries? Is it just a case of mating and seeing what is produced or is there a test that can be done? I got talking to one lady about her new pup(blue roan) who she was going to put with her bitch(orange roan). I asked what colours the litter were likely to be and she said the pup carries a lot of colours so is it a case of seeing what colours his ancestors have produced? I'm making no sense so will be quiet now ::)


PS Is there a book on this subject as I think Iw ould find it quite interesting.                    

Jane S:
I find this subject really interesting too - I did a whole study on it as part of a dog breeding course I completed some time ago so I can go on about it for hours unless someone stops me ;D

Anyway, particolours are always recessive to solids so two particolours mated together can never produce solid puppies. However solids can carry the spotting gene (which produces the particolour effect) so two solids can produce particolour pups if both carry the necessary gene. Moving on to particolours specifically, the roan colouring is always dominant to the broken colours (eg black & white). Two black & whites mated together cannot produce blue roan puppies but two blue roans mated together can produce black & whites if both carry the right gene. The other particolours like orange roan & liver roan are recessive colours so as with the solid golds, two oranges can only produce orange roan puppies & two liver/chocolate roans can only produce liver/choc roans. However two blue roans mated together can produce a variety of different colours in the same litter as long as both parents carry the relevant genes. The tan gene that produces blue roan & tans & tricolours (in partis) & black & tans etc in solids is also recessive, so both parents have to carry the tan gene to be able to produce it.

Going back to the solid liver/chocolate, this is simply another recessive colour & it's so rare in show lines simply because so few show-bred Cockers carry the liver gene nowadays, though there are a handful of breeders who still have it in their breeding lines.  If you want some more info on Cocker coat colour inheritance, this Swedish site is quite good: http://w1.332.telia.com/~u33200262/article.htm

HTH

Jane                    

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