CockersOnline Forum

Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Tidge on May 07, 2005, 10:18:35 AM

Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Tidge on May 07, 2005, 10:18:35 AM
Hello all,

I've recently been contacted by someone looking for a cocker puppy bitch who will be used just to breed from. :angry:

They have made no secret of the fact that they are just looking for a pup who they can breed with the blue roan that they already have because he so 'nice' and they know that they can make a lot of money from him!!!

I was shocked to say the least, but now I'm full of concern that they might actually get away with it, especially as they now know that its not the done thing, they might not be so open with the next people they approach.

I have explained that most pups come with restrictions regarding breeding on the KC papers and they said that doesn't matter to them because they would breed anyway and the people they know will pay full price anyway because their dogs is so 'nice'.

Is anyone else as horrified as I am????  They are local to me and have been asking details about exactly where I live in my area!!  

Does anyone know if you can report this sort of behaviour or ban them from breeding??  The blue roan doesn't even live with them he lives in an Animal Sanctuary and lives in a run!  Can't the RSPCA speak to them or am I just interferring unnecessarily.

Help please??
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Sheryl on May 07, 2005, 10:41:13 AM
Thats terrible :o   I don't know what you can do but I think I would be trying something, even if it got me nowhere in the end :(   If cockers were bred just because they were 'nice' we would all be breeding them!!  I hope they get no interest at all and all their plans go to rat sh*t.  (sorry for the language :angry: )
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Magic Star on May 07, 2005, 10:47:36 AM
:angry:  :angry: Words fail for me!  You have every right to be angry, not sure where you stand with complaining though?
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Wendy G on May 07, 2005, 10:53:34 AM
Don't people like this make your blood boil!

Do you know what animal sanctuary their "nice" cocker is in?.If so perhaps you could have a word with them.
It is so exasperating knowing that these things go on and you feel so helpless.
How do their friends know what the dog is like if it is in a sanctuary?.
Hope you can do something.
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Tidge on May 07, 2005, 10:57:46 AM
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Don't people like this make your blood boil!

Do you know what animal sanctuary their "nice" cocker is in?.If so perhaps you could have a word with them.
It is so exasperating knowing that these things go on and you feel so helpless.
How do their friends know what the dog is like if it is in a sanctuary?.
Hope you can do something.
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Yes I do know which Animal Sanctuary they are in, but its the owner of the Sanctuary who wants to do the breeding.  The pup was originally owned by the person who contacted me, but as she has poodles, her friend who owns the Sanctuary offered to look after the blue roan until they settled him in!!  They in turn fell in love with the cocker and have kept him in a run at the Sanctuary......Oh but its OK.......they intend to keep the pup bitch in the run next door to her 'husband to be' until she's old enough to have her first litter!!!

Can you believe it!!! :angry:

Are there rules on Animal Sanctuaries to prevent them from mindless breeding, when in fact they should be helping to rehome animals.

Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: bluesmum on May 07, 2005, 11:01:54 AM
:blink:  Thats crazy!!

Sounds like a real crackpot to me, who shouldnt be anywhere near animals!!!  :angry:
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Magic Star on May 07, 2005, 11:04:37 AM
Quote
Quote
Don't people like this make your blood boil!

Do you know what animal sanctuary their "nice" cocker is in?.If so perhaps you could have a word with them.
It is so exasperating knowing that these things go on and you feel so helpless.
How do their friends know what the dog is like if it is in a sanctuary?.
Hope you can do something.
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Yes I do know which Animal Sanctuary they are in, but its the owner of the Sanctuary who wants to do the breeding.  The pup was originally owned by the person who contacted me, but as she has poodles, her friend who owns the Sanctuary offered to look after the blue roan until they settled him in!!  They in turn fell in love with the cocker and have kept him in a run at the Sanctuary......Oh but its OK.......they intend to keep the pup bitch in the run next door to her 'husband to be' until she's old enough to have her first litter!!!

Can you believe it!!! :angry:

Are there rules on Animal Sanctuaries to prevent them from mindless breeding, when in fact they should be helping to rehome animals.
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I have noticed this a lot lately that so called "animal sanctuarys" are starting to breed :blink:   Its very hypocritical isn't it!  Poor boy kept in a run too :(   I know people will disagree but pets should be in the home, not stuck in a run :(
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Wendy G on May 07, 2005, 11:12:14 AM
How maddening, I dont' know about rules on sanctuaries, do you even need a licence to run one?.I shall be thinking about this all day now.
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: daunting on May 07, 2005, 11:13:38 AM
I'm disgusted that a so called 'animal sanctuary' can even think about doing such a thing :o

Can you pm me the name of the sanctuary and i'll see what can be done if anything :)
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Tidge on May 07, 2005, 11:28:53 AM
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I'm disgusted that a so called 'animal sanctuary' can even think about doing such a thing :o

Can you pm me the name of the sanctuary and i'll see what can be done if anything :)
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Hi

I've PM'd the details over to you, let us all know if you think there's anything that can be done
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Gilly on May 07, 2005, 12:20:24 PM
It's shocking isn't it  :angry:
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: suzysu on May 07, 2005, 12:58:05 PM
Tina - this is terrible  :(  sorry I can't help, lets hope that you making everyone aware of it will put breeders on the alert for something suspicious.  ;)  

It must be so difficult for breeders nowadays to know when someone is genuine  :blink:

Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Cayley on May 07, 2005, 02:21:32 PM
I have a feeling it's the same old story, the owner ignores advice and goes ahead only to find that they don't make the sort of money they thought, that's if they make any, they rehome said dog because it's no use. Have you made them aware about tests and KC registrations, that's a big chunk of money to begin with but if it drains their profits they undoubtedly won't bother  :angry: .
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Jane S on May 07, 2005, 02:41:49 PM
Sad to say but there is v little you can do about people like this - all over the country, there are hundreds of people who think it would be nice to have a litter or two & make some money :(  If you are a breeder, there is no way to be 100% sure that would-be buyers are genuine - some experienced breeders have been caught out by people posing as normal family buyers who turn out to be agents of overseas dealers or are simply trying to get hold of puppies to breed from. Endorsements on registrations can deter some of these people but not always - they can simply breed from these puppies & either not register the offspring or register them with the so-called "alternative" registries.

I know of one back yard breeder in the South who has been trying to get hold of show-bred puppies for breeding - her name is now well-known to a lot of show people in the area but that's not to say she won't fool other breeders by using another name (it happens!) or by not being honest about why she wants a puppy. Perhaps knowing that people like this exist might help explain why some breeders seem over-cautious to genuine buyers - as a breeder, I would rather be safe than sorry any day!

"Animal Sanctuaries" like this give all genuine rescues & sanctuaries a bad name. Unfortunately it's not unheard of for someone to call themselves a rescue/sanctuary & then proceed to buy & sell dogs & even breed puppies for sale. Rescues with charity status have to comply with strict rules but smaller outfits are not regulated although I'm sure licensing of sanctuaries is one of the proposals in the Animal Welfare bill?

Jane
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: flossysmum on May 07, 2005, 03:35:34 PM
no advice but just wanted to say Thats Shocking  :o how could so called "Animal sanctuaries" do such a thing!! :angry: he shouldnt be allowed anywhere near animals  :angry:
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: sarah25 on May 07, 2005, 03:51:09 PM
sorry could some 1 plz tell me wht "animal sanctuaries"  ;)
thankyou  :)
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Magic Star on May 07, 2005, 06:12:12 PM
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sorry could some 1 plz tell me wht "animal sanctuaries"  ;)
thankyou  :)
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An animal sanctuary is like an animal shelter, i.e. somewhere where homeless doggies are put until a new home is found for them :)
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: sarah25 on May 07, 2005, 06:19:44 PM
OoOoOoO thankyou mrsbojangles  :)
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Tidge on May 07, 2005, 06:43:39 PM
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no advice but just wanted to say Thats Shocking  :o how could so called "Animal sanctuaries" do such a thing!! :angry: he shouldnt be allowed anywhere near animals  :angry:
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Thanks for the info Jane, and the support.

I wonder if this is the same people you are talking about they are based in Chichester and they got my details from another forum.

I'm always very reluctant to given my complete address until I have spoken to people on a regular basis and that I feel happy with them visiting my house and view any pups, a situation recently arose about 5 miles from where I live with a litter of black labs.

The breeder got a call from prospective buyer who she arrange to meet and visit the pups, she felt unsure about them and they decided that the pup wasn't quite what she was looking for (considering they were a litter of all black pups, it can't be that hard to decide), then about a week later the whole litter was stolen and have never been seen since.  Now that's really shocking and worrying.

I do explain to prospective buyers why I'm not prepared to give any details until I feel entirely happy but there is only so much you can do before you scare the good puppy buyers away.

This particular person has already said that the pup would be used for breeding and she felt that the only reason that a breeder put restrictions on pups is to prevent her loosing business to other breeders!!!  She has quoted quite openly that she will breed anyway whether there are restrictions or not because she has already had enquiries for her boys pups and 'knows she could get a good price with or without papers'.

Surely as a breeder, if you make stipulations in a contract about breeding and then someone then breaks that contract, you could take some action against them for breech of contract, although that might prove expensive, but at least it might stop them continueing to breed.
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Jane S on May 07, 2005, 07:02:14 PM
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Surely as a breeder, if you make stipulations in a contract about breeding and then someone then breaks that contract, you could take some action against them for breech of contract, although that might prove expensive, but at least it might stop them continueing to breed.
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Well in theory you can include a clause about not breeding from the dog in a contract between buyer & breeder but in practice, I think it's unlikely a court would uphold the clause. Dogs are "chattels" as far as the law is concerned & once ownership passes, then the new owner is free to do exactly what they want with their property. In the unlikely event that a court did agree that a "not to be bred from" clause was valid, all the breeder could do would be to sue for breach of contract which would be expensive & time consuming & wouldn't actually stop the buyer from breeding anyway. It's not fair if you're a breeder wanting to protect your pups but that's the law :(

Jane
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: lindsey on May 07, 2005, 08:43:07 PM
I was contacted by these same people about 3 months ago.  I actually do know the animal sanctuary as I got a rabbit from them.  They don't actually have dogs at the sanctuary it is mainly wildlife and rabbits.  They didn't actually tell me that they were after a bitch to breed from, but at the time our bitches had all been reserved.  I did find out afterwards from a friend of theirs who I also know that they were after a bitch to breed from.
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: Sprout's on May 07, 2005, 09:02:48 PM
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Tina - this is terrible  :(  sorry I can't help, lets hope that you making everyone aware of it will put breeders on the alert for something suspicious.  ;)   

It must be so difficult for breeders nowadays to know when someone is genuine  :blink:
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Its frightening to think this kind of thing is going on. I had hought that dogs from rescues didnot have papers to try and stop breeding like this but now it seems an animal "sanctuary" is involved.
Title: Puppy Farmers
Post by: lindsey on May 08, 2005, 09:31:46 AM
This dog is not actually from a rescue society, it lives at an animal sanctuary as the people who have it own the sanctuary.