CockersOnline Forum

Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Geordietyke on September 08, 2013, 04:06:14 PM

Title: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 08, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
Hi, are the above colours official cocker colours?  I've not heard of a choc roan and white before and only know of a choc and white ticked.  Do you think a breeder means one of those and is that how they would normally be advertised?  Thanks, Lesley
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Emilyoliver on September 08, 2013, 04:13:10 PM
As far as am aware you only get choc roan and choc and white/ ticked (as for orange and black - roan or 'and white'). Not a combination of roan and 'and white'.  (the way I've put it, it's probably even more confusing?!)
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Jane S on September 08, 2013, 04:48:49 PM
Emily is right - a dog can either be registered as a roan or an "and white/ticked", it can't be both.
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 08, 2013, 05:30:05 PM
Thank you both, that's what I thought  :D
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 08, 2013, 07:29:01 PM
Just queried colour with the breeder and as suspected, she hasn't registered the litter, even though she says she owns both parents and they are KC registered.

Strangely, she said if she were to register them, she'd put them as choc and white so they clearly weren't roan!

Sounds like she has maybe bred her cockers but they've had a "no breed" clause against them.....
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: JennyBee on September 08, 2013, 08:14:47 PM
How old are the pups? I'm far from an expert, but in my limited experience the roaning doesn't always show up until they are older. Here are a few pics at different ages:


(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr257/jennybee_brodie/Bria%20litter/IMG_8323.jpg)

(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr257/jennybee_brodie/Bria%20litter/IMG_8694.jpg)

The finished article :005:

(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr257/jennybee_brodie/Bria%20litter/d17890674bea720b9730458758810aa6.jpg)

He - along with the others - has even less white in him now.

The whole not registering sounds a bit odd, think you could be right.
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 08, 2013, 08:20:23 PM
Thanks for those gorgeous pupster pics  :luv:  Yes, I see that they could be seen as choc and white when very small.  The breeder only has 2 pups left leading me to believe they are at least 9/10+ weeks old, perhaps older.

What a complete difference the adult pic is, hardly any roan!!
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Mudmagnets on September 08, 2013, 09:26:28 PM
Hi there Lesley

Minstrel is a Chocolate Roan, and as you can see is already showing the Roan - this is how he looked when I saw him at 8 weeks too, as he is only 11weeks now not sure at this stage what his final colours will be. Some of his litter mates were Choc/white,some choc Roan and there were a couple of Blue Roans in the litter too. Mum was Blue Roan & dad mainly white with some choc/tan/white on him.

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Smudgesmum_2006/th_Allreadytogo_zpsb1e18c2c.jpg) (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/Smudgesmum_2006/media/Allreadytogo_zpsb1e18c2c.jpg.html)

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Smudgesmum_2006/th_DSC01009_zps73b54f4b.jpg) (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/Smudgesmum_2006/media/DSC01009_zps73b54f4b.jpg.html)

Good luck with your search - it can be a bit of a minefield, can't it.

Irene
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 08, 2013, 09:58:21 PM
Aw Irene, Minstrel is such a cutie pie :luv: :luv:  He does have definite roan on him so it'll be interesting to see his coat develop.  Yes, it's tricky, even with all I know and the knowledge and advice on COL but I just know Odie will guide me  :D
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Mudmagnets on September 08, 2013, 10:10:08 PM
Aw Irene, Minstrel is such a cutie pie :luv: :luv:  He does have definite roan on him so it'll be interesting to see his coat develop.  Yes, it's tricky, even with all I know and the knowledge and advice on COL but I just know Odie will guide me  :D

Thank you, as you know from this morning's cry for help - he can be a pickle  :luv: :005:

Yes I am sure Odie will help you choose, you'll know when you have seen the right one.
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: JennyBee on September 08, 2013, 11:02:46 PM
Thanks for those gorgeous pupster pics  :luv:  Yes, I see that they could be seen as choc and white when very small.  The breeder only has 2 pups left leading me to believe they are at least 9/10+ weeks old, perhaps older.

What a complete difference the adult pic is, hardly any roan!!

You would have a hard job telling him apart from that solid liver pup in the first pic these days! He is very like Brodie, very, very brown - although as she's got older her roaning is becoming more visible again (I refuse to believe it's grey hair :005:)

Just had a thought: can't you tell by the pads of their feet? Brodie has pure brown pads; don't the 'and whites' have patches?
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Jane S on September 09, 2013, 08:54:04 AM
Just had a thought: can't you tell by the pads of their feet? Brodie has pure brown pads; don't the 'and whites' have patches?

Yes that's right - roans will have fully pigmented pads on their feet (all brown if liver/chocolate), "and whites" always retain some pink pigmentation on their pads.
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 09, 2013, 09:11:26 AM
Excellent, many thanks for that info  :D
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Rowan Liver Roan on September 09, 2013, 09:33:15 PM
JennyBee, another gorgeous picture...the finished article isn't Brodie though? He's a lovely example of a roan - I love their underbelly and legs/feathering.
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: JennyBee on September 09, 2013, 09:46:26 PM
JennyBee, another gorgeous picture...the finished article isn't Brodie though? He's a lovely example of a roan - I love their underbelly and legs/feathering.

Yes, that's Mickey, or Michael, as he's also known :005:. He's a very, very heavy coated boy, in fact his coat is even worse than Brodie's and that's saying something. He was a very poorly boy when he was born and it took a lot of work to keep him alive, worth it though :luv:.

He will be Rowan's cousin :luv:
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: montydavies on September 10, 2013, 06:42:53 AM
So glad to see you may be considering a new pupster Lesley, I'm sure Odie will be guiding you to the right pup! Good luck with your search. Big hugs. Trinexxxx
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: valcam on September 11, 2013, 05:08:57 PM
We are having a chocolate roan puppy in 10 days (not that I'm counting) we were very lucky to meet her at only one week old and she was mainly white, with chocolate patches, when we visited her again at five weeks her roan marking are beginning to come in very much like Minstrels,  Good luck as you search for your new puppy, we lost our old girl back in April and I have had a few tears and a few moments when I have felt almost disloyal to her for wanting to love another little pup, but I do believe she is always watching over me and I'm sure your Odie will be too xx
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Sharon on September 14, 2013, 08:40:37 PM
Sorry but visiting a pup at a week old is very irresponsible on the breeders part, no way would anybody visit my pups, not even family at that age.  :-\
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 14, 2013, 08:43:03 PM
Sharon, what is the minimum age visitors should be able to meet pups?
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Sharon on September 14, 2013, 08:47:27 PM
I wouldn't let anybody visit before 3 weeks, 4 weeks is better.
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Geordietyke on September 14, 2013, 08:48:15 PM
OK, thanks for that  :D
Title: Re: Colour query - choc & white and choc roan and white
Post by: Cayley on September 14, 2013, 09:00:50 PM
The absolute earliest would be 3 weeks as they are still at risk and so much can go wrong. Breeders that have people round early are probably worried they are going to go elsewhere  :-\.