CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Tasha on March 18, 2007, 09:25:26 PM
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Does anyone have a list of affixes that shows the type of dogs that they breed? Either Working, Show or Pet? I am going to make a start on the cockers to add to my weimaraner database but want to be able to add the type of dogs bred to help identify type.
For an example my dogs breeders affix is 'Paoates' and they breed working cocker spaniels based on nancarrow and contrail lines. So:
Paoates - Working
Nancarrow - Working
Contrail - Working
Maesydderwen - Working
Gwibernant - Working
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Parkbreck (Working)
Wernffrwd (Working)
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kingcott working........... rolos sire
Strathfleet working.....rolos dam
Norleigh working and some more names from the rest of his pedigree thanks kirsten (workingcockers)
Migdale working
Anahar working
Jordieland working
Swallow law working
Ardoon working
Elan working
Hurrayon working
Tayburn working
Laigh park working
Carsewell working
Cromlix working
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All working affixes...
Timsgarry
Anapher
Felstead
Deepfleet
Dardnell
Jordieland
Dallandor
Sandford
Maesydderwen
Wernffrwd
Macgiriaght
Mailscot
Cheweky
Laighpark
Clevedale
Whitecourt
Anahar
Larford
Bournepark
Elan
Kigaro
Gwibernant
Larford
Rowston
Badgercourt
Gwengraig
Mallowdale
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in the back of Mike Smiths Working Springer & Cockers book there is a comprehensive list of FTCH's over the years which will start you off well ;)
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Actually I'd really like a list of both show and working if possible. I am starting to put together a cocker database similar to the weimaraner one that I hold using the BRS supplements from the KC but they do not state working, show or pet. I'd like to put this data in so that you can see the full history of a dog rather than just the canned variety. The programme I use has a facility that can do a complete pedigree from the first to the last input (in the case of my weimaraner first entry is 1888 at the first german dog show where they were presented).
I'm also going to include the mixed bred dogs as these were listed in the early KC docs. At the moment I have data going back to the 50's once that lots in I'll go back as far as the KC records.
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wow...sounds like a mammoth task!
I guess the KC would have a list of all affixes for which cockers were registered under. By finding out the parentage of the dogs in each kennel you may be able to determine whether they were show-type or working?
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All working affixes...
Timsgarry
Anapher
Is there Anapher and Anahar? I've got Anahar listed but can't find Anapher....
also, you'll find more recently that some working breeders don't use an affix at all which may make your life difficult.
let me know if you'd like a copy of the affixes from the mike smith book tasha
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thanks :D
Its going to be an enormous task especially as I am already sorting out the weimaraners but we have lots of people working on that and will soon have a global database that will be maintained. Would be nice to have a similar thing for the cockers but in the 50's when weims only had two entries in some of the BRS the cockers have pages and go back over 100 years so this is not going to be a quick process.
The end result should be worth having though. The weim one has solved several mysteries and pointed out a few home truths about our breed, some that prehaps that people would have preferred to keep hidden but I'm all for an open policy be it with breeding or health.
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Actually I'd really like a list of both show and working if possible.
here are some show for you then ;)
Staplehill
Brynceri
Courtmaster
Okell
Lynwater
Bitcon
Quasar
Classicway
Sprogmore
Glowhill
Avandora
Normanview
Courtdale
Lochdene
Cardamine
Dearnewood
Ashalon
Haradwaaithe
Lindridge
Sherberna
Hightrees
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This is certainly a mammoth task as there are probably thousands of Cocker affixes (show & working). Are you looking for a published list Tasha? If so, it doesn't exist -there is just the KC Kennel Name Directory which lists all published affixes but doesn't specify the breeds associated with those affixes (and only lists current affixes anyway) I'm not sure about using COL to create your own list - I can see it ending up as a humungously long boring thread ;)
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Best place to get show Affixes from would probably be the Cocker Spaniel Club Year Book? I have about 10 but not consecutive years? If I get chance I could list them on a spreadsheet and mail them to you would that help?
Michelle
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All working affixes...
Timsgarry
Anapher
Is there Anapher and Anahar? I've got Anahar listed but can't find Anapher....
Yes there is ;) Anapher breed working cockers and working labs, KC and Gundog Club accredited, all health tests done etc.
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Another working one is Whitlocks
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and yet another working one is Tawnyhill :blink:
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I've taken a note of all the ones that are on here so far. so these can be deleted if you want but can I leave the post open asking for PMs?
Home breeders are of particular interest because these won't be listed in any of the working or show references I can use from the BRS.
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Nicola I can see why you'd want one of those.... and he's not far from me. Has got a lovely looking black cocker bitch for sale would be so tempting to fit one more in ph34r :luv:
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I'm intrigued Tasha - what do you mean by a "pet" affix? :huh:
Do you mean breeders who do not actively work or show their dogs? I thought a sign of a "reputable" breeder was one who only bred from good examples of the breed - which is assessed through show results or proven abilities in the field (either competitively or actually working)..... :huh: I read the term "pet" breeders to mean either commercial kennels (or worse, puppy farms) or backyard breeders, some of whom do register their own KC affix (for what reason, I'm not sure).
I'm sure there are many thousands of breeders out there who churn out KC registered puppies for the pet market.....cockers are a lot more popular than Wiems and so the size of the task you have set yourself would be significant, and I'm not sure to what end, if the quality of the breeder and their lines was not a consideration ;)
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Nicola I can see why you'd want one of those.... and he's not far from me. Has got a lovely looking black cocker bitch for sale would be so tempting to fit one more in ph34r :luv:
I know... when I saw her for a second the mad thought crossed my mind to ring up and see how much she is but then I came to my senses again ph34r :lol:
His dogs are fab, I've admired them for a long time.
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with regard to data I am an absolute DEMON and don't like in accuracies so I am interested in all the different affixes but the home ones will be difficult to spot and its more likely that people on here will know if a dog came from a one off pet breeder or a serial puppy farmer. The only thing I will note is 'Breeder Type' working /show/pet so that you can identify dogs that have been bred for working purposes, showing or as family pets.
I know its a mammoth task but sometimes where one person starts someone else will carry on or add to.. the weim one we have started off with a few people updating it and now we are slowing getting a global pedigree database together that is free and online direct from the BRS so accurate as far as possible. Its a fantastic resource and I recon I have a good 30 years at least where I can enter data :D :D
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Islanza - show-strain cockers
Jardinisle - show-strain cockers
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I've taken a note of all the ones that are on here so far. so these can be deleted if you want but can I leave the post open asking for PMs?
If the affixes already listed are deleted, you'll have people not realising they have already been given to you so you'll probably get a lot of repetition. If they're not deleted & people carry on adding to this thread, we've got the problem of a discussion forum not really being suitable for the collection of what could be large amounts of data. Perhaps it would be best to do as you suggest and just ask members to contact you privately if they want to help with your research.
Thanks :blink:
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I think the term pet can mean many things
You might get backyard breeders or puppy farmers under that category :-\
You get the one litters who don't do much homework
and one litters who do try there best to do things right
there are also breeders who do not show or work there dogs they do all health tests and uses good examples of the breed , who rear pups very well and take them back if things go wrong :-\
( I know of a few breeders who are just like this some of them are on Col ).I personly would think of them as reputable
:blink:
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If one is trying to wade through hundreds of thousands of registered cockers, many of whose owners and affix's are long gone, its a reasonable step to try and organise the data under reasonable headings.
If Tasha is rolling up her sleeves and willing to type her fingers to the bones to make free and open access to such a wonderful resource, we should be jumping through hoops to assist.
That includes all information. Good, bad and ugly.
Puppy farming should be tackled through political action and organisation, as requested in other areas of this forum.
Making a free, open list of every cocker registered has only one moral decision relevant to it - that to do it in the first place for those that will use it - us and future generations.
It has nothing to do with penciling in the anti puppy farming message again.
Tasha, a suggestion (in this discussion forum), Redo the thread in the Pedigree research subforum (not so discussion) asking the same question, followed by an editable (updated) alphabetised list.
If admin can close the topic to replys and make it a "sticky", then ask contributers to PM you additions after checking against the main list.
That way...
You get your info, which you want to share with us all. (Thank you)
Admin keeps a tidy forum.
Thread does not get infected by aggressive posts.
From my own meager research I fear they were the wrong three headings, I imagine most, especially for the first 80+ years breed for all options.
Unless there was a "Frankenstein" affix, who would have spliced for the moral good of the breed, taking the best head, back, etc. ;)
Q.
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tasha, just a suggestion....curtisio built up a col database on here...it may be worth while checking that and getting affixes from there - i know a lot of dogs are on there (i can't check cos i have a mac and it won't download). Then you can ask members (if they're still active) for any other details.
otherwise, i'm happy to send you jarv's pedigree for you to add the affixes from
h
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Tasha, a suggestion (in this discussion forum), Redo the thread in the Pedigree research subforum (not so discussion) asking the same question, followed by an editable (updated) alphabetised list.
Sorry but no - a discussion forum is not the best place to collate large amounts of data for research purposes (the list you envisage would be massive!). I personally think such a large project would be better allocated to it's own web space and if Tasha wants any advice on that, then I would be happy to help. For the moment, Tasha has already suggested that people contact her privately & that is how we will leave things.