What Is Lemon Roan? How D'you Tell In A Pup?

[ziggy]

cheers shirley,i thought it was interesting about how they get the colours,and just wondered about the whole thing really,
thanx for the reply,


 

[Jane S]

If you're interested in how Cocker colours are inherited, you might find this old thread interesting

Jane

[ziggy]

thanks jane i read it,it was really interesting  

[subeeloo]

...Hi,
get onto the English Cocker Spaniel World Website...it has every colour imaginable on there, some of our forum buddies have their's on it....
There are loads of cocker's  from every part of the world, it's amazing...  

[Ulla R]

Hi Jane and others!

What you think about Rillas colour (see the link, there are two pictures of her):
http://ladysplits.tripod.com/id7.html

She don't have any black in her at all. In my opinion she is a lemon roan, not an orange roan, due to no plack pigment.

[Luvly]

 

[Jane S]

Jane while were on the subject of colours . im not thinking about breeding but Interested since bella has a orange roan farther is it possible she carries the orange gene ?

All Cockers with an orange roan parent automatically carry the orange gene but as to what other colours Bella may or may not carry, you can't tell really.

[Jane S]

Hi Jane and others!

What you think about Rillas colour (see the link, there are two pictures of her):
http://ladysplits.tripod.com/id7.html

She don't have any black in her at all. In my opinion she is a lemon roan, not an orange roan, due to no plack pigment.

I'm not sure Ulla - some oranges do have brown pigment when they carry the liver gene (as Rilla does from her father). Was this photo taken of her as an older lady? Oranges do go quite pale as they get older sometimes or has she always been this pale? Either way, she looks a sweetheart

Jane

[Luvly]

 

[Pammy]

FWIW - I would say Rilla is a definite Orange Roan. Her colouring is very very similar to Buddy's, a tad paler arund the head - but if you look on her body - she has a very dark orange patch. She seems to have a slightly pale nose - Buddy's goes pale in winter too - as do many brown pigmented dogs - Labrador's for example.

[ziggy]

this is a really interesting thread, i didn,t know dogs coats can go paler in the winter,is there a book i could buy on colourings of cockers,i,d like to learn a bit more about it

thanx

ziggy jasper and mabel xxx

[Ulla R]

She is 7 years and 1 year old in the pictures. She did have darker ears when she was a puppy, but she has allways had a rosy nose and lips. And yes it comes from her father (a liver roan). But are the ones with no black pigment really orange roan? It is  the same thing in red and golden.

Here is a link for colour and genetics fans http://w1.332.telia.com/~u33200262/article.htm

I found a better quality picutre about Rilla (the the same one)



 

[Jane S]

But are the ones with no black pigment really orange roan? It is  the same thing in red and golden.

 

The nose pigmentation is determined by a different gene than the one which produces orange/gold/red colouring. A Cocker with a brown nose/lips has the "bb" combination & if it also has "ee" then it becomes red/gold/orange/lemon. Other modifying genes ("rufus" genes) are said to determine the depth of colour which distinguishes between say an orange & a lemon or a red and a gold. This is according to UK geneticists like Willis & Robinson.

Jane

[Becky]

Ollie is an orange roan, and even at 14 weeks, his patches are dark, but his nose appears to be very dark brown.  His mum had a self cououred nose, not sure about the dog.  I did basic genetics at school, but it seems more complicated in dogs than in humans!