Suppliers own

[Chocolate Hero]

Have been using a family run feed supplies business & have had years of great advice over the last 10 years from them on feeds etc. They have started doing there own mix of dry food & my parents dogs switched to it under their recommendation for the high allergy border collie & a fussy eater (2dogs), from adren grange to there own hypoallergenic mix. The feeds in plain bags so had only basic ingredients on, ive just found a copy of the full ingredients & im not convinced on the quality they said it was. However the dogs are doing great on it.

Im going in next week to look at puppy/ junior foods & im not sure on it. theres too much choice out there & i want high quality but price is an issue for us at the moment. The other option im considering is OSCARs.

What do folks think of the ingredients? seems far too many additives to me.

Analytical Constituents: Crude Protein : 30%, Crude Oils & Fats : 14%, Crude Fibre : 2.5%, Crude Ash : 9.5%, Omega 3  : 0.78%

Composition:

Poultry Meal, Rice, Maize, Oats, Poultry Fat, Sugar Beet Pulp, Fish Meal, Chicken Hydrolysate, Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Linseeds, Salmon Oil, Minerals, Pork Hydrolsate, DL- Methionine, Mannanoligosaccharides (MOS), Fructooligosaccharides (FOS), L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Chondroitin Sulphate

Additives:

Vitamins; Vitamin A (as retinyl acetate) 26,760 IU/kg, Vitamin D3 (as cholecalciferol) 1,800 IU/kg; Trace Elements: Zinc Chelate of Amino Acids Hydrate 356 mg/kg, Zinc Sulphate Monohydrate 296 mg/kg (Total Zinc 160 mg/kg), Ferrous Sulphate Monohydrate 321 mg/kg, Ferrous Chelate of Amino Acids Hydrate 21 mg/kg (Total Iron 99 mg/kg), Manganous Sulphate Monohydrate 117 mg/kg (Manganese 37 mg/kg), Cupric Chelate of Amino Acids Hydrate 53 mg/kg, Cupric Sulphate Pentahydrate 42 mg/kg (Total Copper 16 mg/kg), Calcium Iodate Anhydrous 1.64 mg/kg (Iodine 1mg/kg), Sodium Selenite 0.53 mg/kg (Selenium 0.24 mg/kg)

Appologies on the length of this 

[john51]

It's got quite a high protein content which (for me) is a good thing, but the warning bells ring a bit with the unnamed meat and fat content. "Poultry" means that the constituents of the meat and fat content will vary depending on what is available (or cheaper) at the time the food is made. This may not be a problem if your dog has no allergies to certain proteins but better quality foods will name the source of the proteins specifically. Rice and oats are good quality grains if you are going for a grain-based food, although maize is linked with allergies and is not considered the best protein source for dogs. Sugar beet pulp is another controversial ingredient that some consider a filler whereas the manufacturers believe to be a good source of fibre. It is also linked with allergies. The fact there are 3 grains named after the main meat source makes it likely that the grain proportion is quite high in relation to the meat, although it is impossible to say for sure, and again grains do not contain all the amino acids that dogs need.

Nothing jumps out as being a problem in the additives list although Sodium Selenite has generated some concern as being toxic in large doses. It is in many pet foods though so it's not something I'd be overly concerned about, but then I'm no expert. You would normally expect to see something like mixed tocopherols as a preservative in good food. I don't know what is being used here without doing a bit of research.

All in all it seems ok for a grain-based food but not one of the highest quality foods I've seen. I don't know how much it costs and what other options are available in your chosen price range.

Good luck!

[supergirl]

Just wondering if its the same thing that we have here in Yorkshire.  A large number of the pet stores are stocking their own branded dog & cat food - also a friend of mine is doing the same.  She told me that the mill that manufacture both JWB foods and Arden Grange foods are making an unbranded food that they will label up as the proprietors own food.  There is a whole range from a bakers looking food right up to something which is meant to be comparable to Arden Grange lamb & rice and the JWB varieties   I think there is also a hypoallegenic duck & rice.

Its been selling really well in the local stores here, my local pet shop can hardly keep his shelves stocked.  Initially the packaging was clear save for a label on the front (usually as the shops own brand), but now the packaging is grey with paw prints on but still branded to a particular store.  There is also a range of dentastix and treats.

Pricing is slightly cheaper than the brands mentioned above and also they don't do a 15kg bag but do a 12kg bag at about £25.  My lot have been having the Premium Lamb & Rice which seems to be ok for them especially as Roly has a sensitive tum.

They seem to have some very good sales reps going around, because I've seen it now in quite a number of places.

[john51]

I had a quick look at the Oscar's website. They do a lot of gluten-free foods but ignoring those, their Premium Universal Chicken and Rice makes interesting reading. Despite stressing the rice component, the biggest ingredient is wheat at 34%. Chicken is 20% and so is maize and then we get to rice at 14%. Although they claim 25% meat and fat content, it is not clear on what basis this is calculated. The chicken is stated as fresh meat which will have around 70% water. The other ingredients will have a much lower water content (maize and wheat around 12%) so when the chicken is dehydrated, it will form a significantly lower total percentage of the final kibble.

It also lists salt as an ingredient with the added benefit that it encourages drinking! I've never seen that before and salt is usually added to enhance palatability. The kibble that I feed certainly doesn't have added salt.

On that basis, I would go with the suppliers brand.

[Chocolate Hero]

Supergirl, interesting as you mention yorkshire as the stores in south yorkshire (were in newcastle) & the packaging sounds the same, also the sensitive tum is something were trying to see if we have that problem. price wise its around £18.99 for suppliers puppy own & £35 ish for oscars. if anyone has any recomendations please do say, normally id buy around the arden grange price range but ive just been put out of work so needing to watch what we spend now only have 1 income. ingredients are a mind field.

[john51]

Is it just me, or do other people wonder why they bother when they try to answer a specific question, and their contribution is ignored? If poster isn't interested in the answer there is no point asking the question. It certainly doesn't encourage me to spend time trying to help.

[Chocolate Hero]

I atually havnt ignored your advice, i atually found it quite helpful of what to look for. not sure why you think i have, if in regards to recommendation comment, i was meaning if anyone had any other brands that are better quality in the price range im looking at, as open to more than the 2 i was looking at. Apologies if ive made you feel that your contribution was ignored (it really wasnt) & i do appreciate the time taken to answer my question.

[Helen]

Is it just me, or do other people wonder why they bother when they try to answer a specific question, and their contribution is ignored? If poster isn't interested in the answer there is no point asking the question. It certainly doesn't encourage me to spend time trying to help.

I don't think it's personal John and remember other members will read the threads and take your advice on without replying at all.

Acknowledging each and every post can make the threads lengthy and trivialise the subject matter as well.

I think your post is a bit harsh.

[8 Hairy Feet]

John I read it too and found it
an interesting read, so
thank you
steffxxx

[john51]

I'm sure it wasn't personal, I've not let it spoil my day, and chocolate hero is still on my Christmas card list. I'll take the rebuke for a harsh post on the chin and apologise to chocolate hero who was in the way when I brought up a general point. I agree that not every message needs acknowledging, and obviously the mods are in charge of the etiquette, but wouldn't it be strange if threads consisted of a detailed question, a detailed answer from someone, and no further response? As I said before, perhaps it's just me, but I think that sometimes it's a good idea to acknowledge that someone has tried to help.

[tangy tango]

Quite a few of our flyball team feed Skinners F&T with good results, one dog in particular has allergies and he has improved on the Duck & Rice.  I think they pay around £18 a bag for the Duck and a little bit more for the Salmon or Turkey, as its VAT free.  If your in the Newcastle area I know Carltons in Benton & Seaton Delaval stock it.  Have copied the ingredients below, I don't know what you think John, but it looks pretty good for the price to me.

Analytical Constituents
Crude Protein   22%
Crude Oils & Fats   11%
Crude Fibres   3.5%
Crude Ash   5%

Composition
Whole rice (40%), duck meat meal (20%), naked
oats, peas, whole linseed, sunflower oil, beet pulp,
vitamins and minerals.

Additives
Nutritional additives per kg:
Vitamin A 13,000 iu, Vitamin D3 2,000 iu,
Vitamin E (as alpha-tocopherol acetate) 310 iu.
Trace Elements per kg: Iron (as ferrous sulphate monohydrate) 40mg, Iodine (as calcium iodate anhydrous) 1.5mg, Copper (as cupric sulphate pentahydrate) 5mg, Manganese (as manganous oxide) 25mg, Zinc (as zinc oxide) 100mg (as zinc chelate of amino acids hydrate) 30mg, Selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.15mg.
Contains tocopherol rich extracts of natural origin (Vitamin E) as EC permitted antioxidant.

[Black Beauty & Silverfox]

Is it just me, or do other people wonder why they bother when they try to answer a specific question, and their contribution is ignored? If poster isn't interested in the answer there is no point asking the question. It certainly doesn't encourage me to spend time trying to help.

Know exactly what you mean, I replied to a posting today and ten minutes later [right under my reply] the same member was twittering on, oblivious to the points I raised from the original post


Mel.

[Helen]

Is it just me, or do other people wonder why they bother when they try to answer a specific question, and their contribution is ignored? If poster isn't interested in the answer there is no point asking the question. It certainly doesn't encourage me to spend time trying to help.

Know exactly what you mean, I replied to a posting today and ten minutes later [right under my reply] the same member was twittering on, oblivious to the points I raised from the original post


Mel.

This is a topic about food - not about berating other members.  Please keep this on topic, and please keep it polite 

[Nicola]

Quite a few of our flyball team feed Skinners F&T with good results, one dog in particular has allergies and he has improved on the Duck & Rice. 

Tilly's on Skinner's duck and rice all the time, she has severe IBD and it's the only food she can tolerate - it's been far better than any expensive prescription diet for her - and Caoimhe also has it in the off season (she has no digestive or allergy problems). I think it's a really good food and fantastic value for money, I pay £23 for 15kg but we're in Buckinghamshire where everything is more expensive   Both the girls thrive on it and I'm considering putting Ro on it as well - he's on Barking Heads salmon and potato as he tends to lose weight on rice based foods but I might see how he gets on with the Skinner's when we run out of BH.

[Chocolate Hero]

Thanks for the skinners recommendation unfortunately that was the 1st food we had from carltons & really upsets his tummy. I mite try him again on it when he's an adult, as it's the pup one we had.