New mum

[sands]

I wonder if anyone could give me some advise please. Coda gave birth to a beautiful litter of 8 on Wednesday  all good birth weights 9.2 oz - 11.7 oz) and has been a great mum so far. My one problem is that she doesn't seem to want to lie down to let the puppies feed although she is feeding them constantly and happy to do so. She is either sitting upright or lying half way down which means that some of her teats are inaccessible half the time. With 8 pups this means that there is a lot of pushing and shoving for the teats and the slightly smaller pups are being pushed off . 
Coda is being very protective of them all and is getting very stressed if I try to switch some of the lighter pups over after a while to let them suckle and is now growling under her breath if I try to do it. The smallest pup is now struggling to get on a teat at all and I am scared it will become too weak to latch on at all. Can anyone advise me on how to encourage her to lie flat out to allow all the pups to feed evenly without me stressing her by intervening every time?

[mlynnf50]

I am no expert as it's 40 odd years since i bred any dogs, but rather than stress her I would supplement it's feeding with a small syringe, I have done that on lots of occasions.  But it's a long time since so thoughts may ave changed, I am sure someone will come along shortly.

[ebony girl]

Do you have a down command for coda, perhaps you could encourage her to "down" with some yummy chicken and praise her highly when she does laydown. Keep stroking her while she's laying until all pups have latched on. It may be that she's just scared of squashing them or feels that she can protect them better whilst slightly more upright as she's such a good mum but if you can get her to feed laying down just the once then hopefully she'll realise it's much more comfy and easier.

We had a litter back in April of 5 huge pups weighing 13-14oz each... But after  a week or so I noticed one wasn't latching on properly and was becoming slightly weaker, fortunately my ebony trusts me implicitly and allowed me to top the pup up with a bottle and formula feed every time the pups fed.. I still allowed the pup to try and feed from her first and after a few days of formula the pup was strong enough to latch on again. It's never ideal to formula feed a pup as you run the risk of mum rejecting it but faced with a pup who is obviously going downhill I would bottle feed every time!!

Having said that bottle feeding must be a last resort and keep encouraging coda to lay down without touching any of her pups.

Good luck and I'm sure someone else will be along with better advice who's had a bitch do the same thing before and so are better experienced to help you xxx

[louisedi]

she may need checking out by a vet, a course off antibiotics, some bitches are unsettled when they have a temp & her utrus is contracting back,
take the strong pups off, place in a box & let the smaller ones feed for awhile on there own, just keep changing them over, its still early days but as along as they are gaining weight, they are going the right way,

[Nicky]

Maisy was like this with her first litter, but she was happy for us to move them. We used to make sure the small ones were latched on first and then let the stronger pups find one or if they kept knocking the smaller ones off we would put small ones to feed by themselves for a while.

[sands]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice everyone - once again COL to the rescue!

Coda does have a down command but is refusing to stay down. Everytime she hears another pup squeak she's off looking for them just dropping the wee one off.

Have been letting her and one of the blue girls feed 1st then  trying to feed them formula every hour.   Hopefully they'll gain strenth and through x

[bluegirl]

With Penny who did similar, I was able to lay her on her side in the box (because there was room enough for me too and was strong enough to take my weight). Then once lay down and because I knew she wasn't too keen on staying put I used to have one arm across her neck so she couldn't get up and take off, I'd then stroke her and offer comfort with the restraining arm before I'd start to get the pups latched on. Sometimes I required someone to  keep her settled until they were all feeding just to ensure they all got enough. I didn't need to resort to bottle feeding any with that routine. I would latch the small ones on the back teats first but if the teats looked too engorged for them I'd just let the bigger pups draw off enough milk to allow smaller ones to latch on.

[sands]

Looks like my problem is becoming bigger now as not only the one pup but another 2 are losing weight and not feeding well. They seem unable to latch on for any time at all. I am supplementing their feeding with RC babydog milk every 2 hours at the moment in the hope that they will regain some weight/strength and be able to feed better from Coda though I am not sure I'm winning that battle with the smallest

Can anyone tell me if I can make up a daily supply of replacement milk and refridgerate it and use it as required over the 24 hours or does it require to be made freshly every 2 hours? 
Many thanks again

[spanielcrazy]

Sorry to hear this  It's usually best to make a new batch of formula as needed, but you can do it ahead of time also (especially for night feedings) Just be sure to heat it and test the temperature on the inside of your wrist, as you would do with a baby bottle.

We've had a couple of bitches who wouldn't lay down for their pups, you will need to make her lay down and may have to keep putting the weaker puppies on the nipple. Lay her on her side and make her stay there, laying your arm across her neck if necessary. It's not as bad as it sounds and the puppies lives depend on it.

With the littlest one, if he/she is not sucking strongly on the bottle, you may want to get your vet, or another breeder to show you how to tube feed. This little one may need to be "jump started"

Best of luck

[ebony girl]

I always made a new batch of formula..... Keep trying to get her to lay, if I remember rightly my ebony decided that when her pups where about 3 weeks she wasn't keen on feeding them as they had sharp teeth so I did have to use a little "encouragement"..ie I sat in the whelping box and apply a little force keeping her down... Never appear cross with her though and always spoke soothingly... Even I was shattered and my patience was wearing thin. Try not to appear stressed to your coda as she will pick up on this and may think she doing something wrong.

How much formula are you giving the weak pups???

[bluegirl]

You may need a trip to the vets.

[Holly2009]

For Betty I use to make a bottle and stick it in the fridge, poured out what we needed each feed & warmed it up - you end up with lots of waistage otherwise plus spend your life making bottles which isnt practical.

I'd get the vet to have a really good look for tiny clefts ((although with little Betty she never ever latched on atall, would try really hard but never did))

I use to hold Holly down for a bit if she wasn't lying right (gave her a good fuss) use to pull her two legs closest to the floor up & forwards to bring her tummy up and round so they could all get on, I'd try and get the smaller ones on the back teats first, and pop little ones on while the big ones were sleeping.

 

[sands]

Thanks everyone 
Ebony girl I am giving the recommended amount on the box which is 20ml water - 10ml powder  Do you think I should change that?
I fed them hourly at 1st yesterday on that amount though obviously they didn't always finish it and as soon as I could see Coda was full of milk again I would pop them on before the rest stirred.  At the start they would only suckle for a few minutes then fall off with the smallest not even doing that but as the day progressed the suckled longer and  actually started going to Coda and she was cleaning them again so I've reduced feeding them to every 2 hours as I would rather they had her milk than formula too.
She's letting me move the pups around on the teats to so its making life much easier.
They were all checked by the vet on Friday and said no clefts she could see and they all seemed in good condition.  Coda had an oxitocin (sp?) injection and an anti biotic injection as I wasn't 100% that I had gotten all the afterbirths (she was eating them as she was cleaning the pups) and she is on calcium as it was a big litter.  Do you think I should go back to the vet? I'm really loathe to take them out the house again unless I really have to!

Oh I do hope I'm doing it all right

[Sharon]

This breeding lark isn't as easy as people think is it     If they are feeding from mum, and she's looking like she has plenty of milk then it's a case of sitting with them 24/7 until they get the hang of it.  Mums milk is better for them than the formula, and if you have to resort to bottle feeding don't change the way you are told to make the milk up or you could end up with constipated pups or with diarrhea then you would have undone all the work you've done so far.

Watch the ones losing weight closely, even after being vet checked, they don't always pick up on Cleft Pallets as I found out 7 years back.  My boy was 6 weeks when WE finally picked up on it even after being checked over by 3 or 4 different vets and being told he was fine.

Make sure mum is getting plenty to eat, red meat is great for their milk.

Good luck.

[Cayley]

Not all cleft pallets are noticeable early on as Sharon says, we had two with holes at the back of their throat that weren't noticeable till 4 weeks and we had to make the most horrific decision to put them to sleep. Is there milk coming out of their nose  .