Health screening/testing question

[HelenM]

You, I and, in an ideal world, any responsible breeder wouldn't breed dogs whose conformation was not to the breed standard but sadly we don't live in an ideal world and I do know of breeders that do just that to get a clear dog in their breeding line.

[Jane S]

The reason I am saying that parents should be tested as I said earlier I made the mistake of using a dog whose test results were unknown (he had been tested but waited for approx 4 months for results) The studs sire was hereditary clear as I've already mentioned so no reason to suppose there was a problem.

I will use my own dogs because they are both AA and have excellent pedigrees.

Just wondering if you've ever made a mistake Jane.

I hate to have to correct you but it's wrong to use the terminology "AA" or "B" - it's misleading as these initials were only ever used when we had the old marker test, they don't apply to the new mutation test (I say new but it's several years old now). It's great that your own dogs have excellent pedigrees and are tested clear but that's not enough and won't guarantee suitability to your own girls in the future. I'm just suggesting you be more open minded and not close your mind to outside stud dogs (properly researched of course). All breeders make mistakes but no I've never used a stud dog that's not been tested (not even in the old days when all we had was the clinical eye test) - it was just something drummed into me by breeding mentors but sadly that doesn't seem to happen so much these days, lots of new people start breeding without any knowledge or help from other experienced breeders which is very worrying. It's also sad that so many new breeders (not referring to anyone posting on this thread before anyone starts having a go at me) think they know it all already and don't need to consider anything else as long as their dogs have the magic "clear" prcd_PRA test results

[Jane S]

I have 3 carrier girls, all mated to my own boy Dylan, who is hereditary clear, all 3 have been Optigen pra tested and all came back clear, now if we stick to your suggestions none of these matings would have taken place, but I now have 3 clear bitches to carry on my lines.

Sorry, I am a bit confused here. If you have 3 carrier girls, how can their tests come back clear?

Sharon has used the DNA tests as they're meant to be used - she's mated her Carriers to a Clear dog and these matings have produced Clear progeny for her to continue on with. Carrier x Clear matings do not produce Affected progeny but percentages of Clear and Carrier Progeny.

[Davyboy16]

Hi everyone,

NOW I'M TOTALLY CONFUSSED!!!  

I think i've opened a can of worms here and there seems to be a debate/fall out happening here.

Still not sure if my question has been answered or not???

[jaybee]

Davyboy

As i understand it, so long as one of the parents is clear the worst case scenario is that the pup will be a genetic carrier. This means that the pup won't be affected by the condition, but would carry the condition in its genes. If you want a pup for a pet dog then as far as i know, so long as one parent is clear the pup should be fine. I think that is how it stacks up.

I think it's a matter of personal opinion of whether you 'judge' a breeder on whether both sire and dam are health tested.
It seems that genetically it can be safe to do so, but whether that is enough for you 'morally' is for you to decide I suppose. I'm not a breeder, so just saying how i would feel as a potential puppy owner.

[LynneB]

The reason I am saying that parents should be tested as I said earlier I made the mistake of using a dog whose test results were unknown (he had been tested but waited for approx 4 months for results) The studs sire was hereditary clear as I've already mentioned so no reason to suppose there was a problem.

I will use my own dogs because they are both AA and have excellent pedigrees.

Just wondering if you've ever made a mistake Jane.

I hate to have to correct you but it's wrong to use the terminology "AA" or "B" - it's misleading as these initials were only ever used when we had the old marker test, they don't apply to the new mutation test (I say new but it's several years old now). It's great that your own dogs have excellent pedigrees and are tested clear but that's not enough and won't guarantee suitability to your own girls in the future. I'm just suggesting you be more open minded and not close your mind to outside stud dogs (properly researched of course). All breeders make mistakes but no I've never used a stud dog that's not been tested (not even in the old days when all we had was the clinical eye test) - it was just something drummed into me by breeding mentors but sadly that doesn't seem to happen so much these days, lots of new people start breeding without any knowledge or help from other experienced breeders which is very worrying. It's also sad that so many new breeders (not referring to anyone posting on this thread before anyone starts having a go at me) think they know it all already and don't need to consider anything else as long as their dogs have the magic "clear" prcd_PRA test results

Thank you for the correction, however this is the terminology used by my circle of show people /breeders/mentor. I do not and will never profess to know everything and the last 3 years have been a very steep learning curve for me. If someone learns not to make the same mistake as I have done then great.

I have my opinion after the mistakes I have made and am entitled to that, I do respect other peoples opinion so please respect mine. The "magic clear" is a result of research and the desire to do things correctly.

I will not post further on this topic.

[elaine.e]

Hi everyone,

NOW I'M TOTALLY CONFUSSED!!!  

I think i've opened a can of worms here and there seems to be a debate/fall out happening here.

Still not sure if my question has been answered or not???

With FN and the form of PRA for which DNA testing can be done (there are different types of PRA) the results can be clear, carrier or affected.

A clear to clear mating will produce clear puppies.
A clear to carrier mating can produce both clear and carrier puppies, but none will be affected.
A clear to affected mating will produce carrier puppies, but none will be affected and none will be clear.
A carrier to carrier mating can produce clear, carrier or affected puppies.
A carrier to affected mating can produce carrier or affected puppies, but none will be clear.
An affected to affected mating will produce affected puppies.

So at least one of the parents needs to have been DNA tested clear to ensure that none of the puppies from a mating will be affected

Some breeders will only breed where both the dog and bitch have been tested, but some will breed with only one parent tested, and that's what quite a lot of the debate on this thread has been about.

For somebody wanting a puppy as a pet or for working, but not for breeding, the minimum requirement in my opinion is that one of the parents has been DNA tested for both conditions and is clear. Personally I would sooner see that both parents have been tested as even if one isn't clear at least the owner of that dog/bitch has had the test done and knows the status of it and what the possibilities are for the puppies. In addition, regular clinical eye testing should be carried out to check for things like pre-disposition to Glaucoma, which is incredibly painful and affected dogs can end up having to have one or both eyes removed.

I hope that helps . It's only part of the equation of looking for a healthy and nice tempered puppy, but it's an important part.

[jonnytrabant]

Hi everyone,

NOW I'M TOTALLY CONFUSSED!!!  

I think i've opened a can of worms here and there seems to be a debate/fall out happening here.

Still not sure if my question has been answered or not???

You sound like one of those trouble makers Davey 

[Sharon]

I have 3 carrier girls, all mated to my own boy Dylan, who is hereditary clear, all 3 have been Optigen pra tested and all came back clear, now if we stick to your suggestions none of these matings would have taken place, but I now have 3 clear bitches to carry on my lines.

Sorry, I am a bit confused here. If you have 3 carrier girls, how can their tests come back clear?

Sorry I've actually got a lot on my plate at the moment, so probably not making a lot of sense, but as Jane has clarified, 3 different Carrier mums to Hereditary clear dad, produced 3 CLEAR offspring