Author Topic: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?  (Read 10648 times)

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Offline CraftySam

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Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« on: October 02, 2006, 06:57:29 PM »
I've been toying with the idea of switching to BARF for a while now. I've read alot about the benefits of it and also some of the negatives but in the end decided to give it ago when our current bags of food run out. I'd been a bit anxious about how my three would accept it so have tried a few things out, like raw eggs and shells which they love. Yesterday I gave them a chicken wing each. It took them a while to work out what to do, but in the end they all seemed to like them, though Barney struggled a little as he's not a strong chewer, but I've since learnt that I could bash it with a rolling pin to break the bones. I did end up chopping it into chunks for him, though I'm not sure that was the right thing to do as he didn't chew much.  ph34r He didn't have a whole wing, Sapphi had the rest of his.

Sorry this is going to be a bit uggh.  ph34r This morning I was woken early by Max whining, something he only does when he's desperate to go out to toilet. He had a lot of diarrhoea.  :-\ and he has on and off all day.  Sapphi had a normal poo this morning but had diarrhoea this afternoon once. Barney's poo has been fine.
They all seem fine in their selves.

The chicken wings were fresh, bought the day before I gave them and in date. Is this something that happens when you first try them with raw, or are they having a bad reaction to it? I would think if the chicken was off that Barney would have diarrhoea too and that they'd maybe be off it too. They all ate their breakfast.

Should I try again with a chicken wing or not? Should I forget BARF all together?

I'd be grateful for any advice as to what I should or shouldn't do.  :-\

I wasn't sure where to put this so sorry if its in the wrong place mods.  :embarassed:
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline MrsMac

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2006, 07:27:03 PM »
I'm not experienced in this at all - Melody eats dried food and mixer but I would have thought that would be normal for a first time eating raw food.

Hope someone experienced will come along soon.
Mairi & Melody
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Offline miche

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2006, 08:26:53 PM »
I experienced this with Ronald.  Ended up taking him to the vets who said he had a tummy bug.  I still don't know if it was related to the chicken wings or if it was something he picked up conincidentally at the same time as I tried raw.  I didn't tell the vet about the chicken wings for fear of being told off ph34r.  The chicken wings must have been OK because Mikey and Herbie were both fine.

I can't feed Ron a raw diet, it just doesn't agree with him, but he's 15 and maybe just to old now to change.

I am not saying this is what's happening in your case - just what I experienced but hopefully some-one will come along to help you.  :D
Love Michele, Mikey and Herbiexx


Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2006, 08:35:52 PM »
Raw food can be a bit of a shock to the system  ;)

One thing I have discovered the hard way is that it really is important that Molo doesn't have a meal of raw and a meal of processed food too close together  :-\ I now make sure he has 10 or 11 hours between the two - if he doesn't , then things get a bit yucky  :-\

Also, there are a number of BARF'd dogs on COL that cannot tolerate chicken  :-\
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Offline Annette

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 08:42:18 PM »
The first time we gave Buddy a chicken wing he failed to chew it properly and it kind of got stuck.

The result was that he had a bit of a runny poo which sort of escaped around the chicken wing, and soon after that he became a bit distressed, was in obvious pain and within a few minutes (which seemed like hours!) passed a very hard poo which obviously hurt him. Within minutes he was fine again, but it worried me enough to make me avoid giving him wings for quite some time.

When I did eventually give him his next wing, I took the advice of some other COLers and bashed it with a hammer first so that even if he did swallow it whole, at least the bones weren't very big. He has had no problems with them since.

I know it is a scary scenario, but it comes as a result of their lack of experience with raw food. I would suggest just leaving them to settle for a few days then try again with well-bashed wings. Eventually they do get the hang of it and it's great to hear them chomping away and enjoying them so much.

I hope the dogs tums settle soon. Of course it might be a bug in their case, but just thought I'd share. Try not to let this put you off. We are enjoying our BARF experience now, about 3 weeks into it. Even though Buddy is turning into more of a foodie than ever!

Just read Rache's post, and agree about not mixing raw and cooked.

Offline clairep4

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 10:05:22 PM »
Bella was hopeless on chicken wings - the first time I gave her two (probably too much) and she was a bit too full, hadn't chewed them properly, was a bit sick in the night and then even more sick in the morning. It really freaked me out at the time, thoughts of salmonella and poisoning my poor dog etc etc. I tried her on them again and she was still rubbish at chewing them (I bashed them first), she just swallowed them almost whole and was then sick in the night. She did the same with a rabbit's leg, swallowed it whole and was later sick.

So for the first few months of the diet I used to actually (don't read this if you're veggie!) put chunks of chicken and bone through an old blender to mash up the bone - it seemed to be the only way she could cope with chicken bone (although she was fine on breast of lamb). I actually only started giving her whole bits of chicken bone about 2 months ago (8 months into the diet) and she is now absolutely fine on it.

I do think it takes them a little while to get the hang of it - (a) to learn how to chew bone and to get their jaws strong enough to really break it into digestible chunks, and (b) for their stomach muscles which have been underused on kibble, to get stronger. Bella's belly used to rumble away in the first few weeks and I think her little tummy struggled a bit at the start but these days she has no problems.

So I think just be prepared that with some of them it takes a little longer to adjust (I don't mean switch gradually from kibble to raw, just maybe you need to mash stuff up a bit more at the start). I tried various things on Bella until I settled on her current diet. I was absolutely paranoid about her choking on bones or her guts being ripped up so I can promise you she is on things that I, personally, feel are really safe - chicken and breast of lamb are the only boney meals she gets and so far she has had no problems at all.

It can be soooo scary at the start, I think I lived, breathed and slept BARF for the first 8 weeks or so, waking up in sweats in the middle of the night because she was moving around more than normal and thinking "oh god she's being ripped up by a lamb rib" etc  ph34r :lol:

So I'd say do give it a go but be prepared to experiment a bit, you should just introduce different meats gradually, start with easier things like the chicken but maybe try putting the wings through the blender first. You could also take some of the skin off if you can bear to as I think wings are fairly rich, myself.

I really wish you luck with it, it's honestly made such a difference to Bella's health and my next dog will definitely be fed on the same diet. Let us know how you get on.  ;)
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Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 10:10:05 PM »
I think I lived, breathed and slept BARF for the first 8 weeks or so, waking up in sweats in the middle of the night because she was moving around more than normal and thinking "oh god she's being ripped up by a lamb rib" etc  ph34r :lol:

Oh Claire, that sounds sooooo familiar  ph34r ph34r
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Offline CraftySam

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 10:51:53 PM »
Thanks everyone for your advice.

I have been having a bit of a panic today.  ph34r Just as you said Claire I've been worried about what if I'd poisoned them, what if its stuck somewhere. I've ummmed and ahhed so long about BARF and decide to try a chicken wing and then they're tums have been upset. I was wondering whether I shouldn't do it, but you've given me some encouragement to stick with the plan and some good ideas.
Rachel, I feed them the chicken wing about four hours after some kibble so that could well have upset them then.  :-\

Should I just switch straight onto BARF rather than half BARF half kibble for a while? I will do as Claire suggests and break down the bone for them for a while.

I've been so stressed today, and can you just imagine what my drive looks like today with all that diarrhoea? Yuk, yuk, yuk.  ph34r  Kept OH occupied when he got home though!  :005:
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline Rhona W

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2006, 11:00:43 PM »
Should I just switch straight onto BARF rather than half BARF half kibble for a while? I will do as Claire suggests and break down the bone for them for a while.

I've been so stressed today, and can you just imagine what my drive looks like today with all that diarrhoea? Yuk, yuk, yuk.  ph34r  Kept OH occupied when he got home though!  :005:
I switched mine straight on to BARF, but as you know that was because they had stopped eating their kibble. (Although they eat it now as a training treat!  >:D )
If you want to do half and half, feed them as seperate meals so there is a good gap in between them.

I bet your OH was pleased when he saw all the pressies his little darlings had left him.  :005: I hope you have a jet wash!  ;)   

Offline Luvly

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2006, 11:04:22 PM »
x
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Offline lyn

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2006, 09:26:20 AM »
i tried barf with paddy and ellie,it didn't really work as planned though.paddy just didn't want to know.ellie loved it but i think the reason she is now overweight is because she wolfed her dinner then paddy's coz he just didn't like it.
they are now back on the jwb with a raw something for ellie as a treat

Offline DennyK

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2006, 10:18:58 AM »
I put Paddy straight onto BARF outright.  In a couple of the books I read, they recommended that, because the digestive enzymes and gut flora needed to digest raw food differs from what is required to digest kibble or processed wet food and a "mix and match" approach can keep the gut in a "neither one thing nor t'other" state.

I'm not surprised that they've had a bit of a reaction, but really do keep at it.  I'd suggest going to the butchers and getting some lamb mince and some breast of lamb.  Feed them one meal raw mince with some blended raw veggies (I have been doing this in the morning although I'm slightly changing the routine for Paddy because of colitis at the moment) and one meal of just the breast of lamb - about three of the rib bones in size - for dinner, after they've been walked - gives their gut more time to digest the bone overnight.

If they thrive on this, add in some organs once a week - for some reason, Paddy detests kidney but loves liver and heart.  Gives them the essential fatty acids they need.

Once they're settled, try them on the chicken wings again and if they react, it may just be an intolerance to chicken.  I was really surprised when experienced BARF'ers confirmed that raw chicken is more often a cause of intolerance than other meats - I guess I think, in human terms, of how bland and easy cooked chicken is and extrapolated to Paddy that raw chicken would be the "easy" meat - but it seems more generally to be lamb that is the "easy" one (except for Penel's dog which can only tolerate raw pork!).

One of the books also says that some dogs go into quite a yuk "detox" period with awful breath, terrible poos, scaly skin and its just all the rubbish coming out - but that wouldn't be the issue here as one meal would be too little to trigger that.

Good luck

Denise

Offline lyn

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2006, 10:49:46 AM »

One of the books also says that some dogs go into quite a yuk "detox" period with awful breath, terrible poos, scaly skin and its just all the rubbish coming out - but that wouldn't be the issue here as one meal would be too little to trigger that.

Good luck

Denise
[/quote]

sounds like the atkins diet :005:

Offline CraftySam

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2006, 10:54:07 AM »
Thanks Denise.  :D

Can I feed the same lamb mince with veggies and Lamb breast every day? Would you maybe do that for a week to see how the get on and then like you suggest tried kidney, heart or liver the following week? I know the like raw egg. I was going to try sardines too.

Would it be best to start as you suggested with the lamb mince etc and when everythings settled down (if it does get upset) add in one thing a week so I'd know what it was thats causing the problem? Would they get enough of everything they need from the lamb mince etc while we build up to a more varied diet?

Sorry for all the questions. I want to do this as I think they'd be better off, but I have to say I am worried. I'm waiting another book on what actually to feed to be delivered, as the book I've got is why to feed it.
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline clairep4

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Re: Gearing up to BARF but is this a bad reaction?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2006, 11:18:04 AM »
Sam, what you've suggested sounds good to me - don't forget that they will only be on the lamb mince/breast alone for a few days so it's not likely to cause them any defiiciencies in that length of time. You can then add in one different meat a week. Bella has, over the period of a week, lamb, chicken, beef, rabbit, tripe and sardines, plus a couple of eggs and some liver - this seems fine for her.

Let us know how you go...
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