Cockers And Children - Help Please

[JANE D]

Hi all - well Charlie was 1 year old last Friday and is still bouncing around full of fun which is great - except when I have my Grandchildren here. I have 2 granddaughters aged 6 & 12 who are just fine with him. They have a dog of their own so are used to it and know how to behave with him.but I also have 2 grandsons who are only 20 months and 31/2years and up till now I've always kept Charlie in the kitchen with the door open to the garden when they're here as the boys are very noisy and lively and their toys are everywhere (just normal little boys). The odd time that Charlie has managed to get in it's been chaos - he leaps about with excitement and the boys run around screaming and shouting (got the picture ) The problem is that quite soon I am going to be looking after the boys quite regularly for full days and I don't know what to do. I can't keep Charlie cooped up all the time or keep the children out of the garden so I'm quite worried about it. I probably should have let Charlie be with them from the beginning but with the children being so small I was frightened that he would knock them over or even nip.I've tried putting him on a lead and going in the room with them but he just goes loopy and bounces everywhere and I can't get him to calm down (I think he thinks he's going for a walk .
Anyway - sorry for the long saga but any advice would be very welcome.

Jane

[Magic Star]

Hi Jane

I am not an expert, but I would say back to basics with Charlie!  I would not put him on the lead, as like you say, it hypes him up and also he may feel more threatened on the lead, should your little grandsons, get overexcited!

I would use reward training with him and use a word that everyone else must use too such as "calm" or "carfeull" when he suceeds treat him with a titbit, hot dog sausages cut into tiny pieces always work well, perhaps involve your grandsons in this too, so he realises if the saying "calm" and hes calm he will get a treat of them too!  Its not impossible to train him to be careful around the boys, Indie is marvelous around my kids, when other peoples kids come into play, she wants to kiss them to death, so we use the "calm" word with her, she soon learnt, that not all children want to be bounced over and then kissed by a cocker! (LOL)

Good luck, let us know the result!

[Michele]

Alternatively, you could get the boys engrossed in a game, or something on the telly, but something where they are not sat on the floor (ie above Charlie's level) and let Charlie in and tell them they must ignore him until he calms down.

If Charlie is way over the top, take him back out without saying anything to him, and when's he's calmed down again, then let him back in to try again. Repeat this as much as necessary, even though it's long and tedious, and eventually Charlie should get the message - then you could offer a treat as a reward.

Might be a bit difficult for the boys, considering their ages, but it's worth a try.

[vicking]

I have two dogs one 5yrs and other 20wks. i have three children aged 6,3 and 20 months. i know it is hard but get them together as soon as possible. get the grandchildren to sit on the sofa for the first ten mad hello mins. Dont worry about kids being knocked over or playfully nipped. it takes a little time tears and patience but they soon get used to eachother.Dont exclude dogs by putting them away from you and the children as they may think they are being punished and resentment can start.I know you will get through and wish you luck,let us know how it goes  

[gc]

I have a 22 months old son. Either Balu (5 years old) chases him for food, or he does with a toy! Both had to be trained to treat each other with respect. Charlie is at the age where he can be trained to behave right ;-) But you need time to do that. Don't be afraid of anything. Dogs somehow, do respect children and usually are kind towards them, regardless of the children behaviour... well... this is not a golden rule though!

[PennyB]

I have a 22 months old son. Either Balu (5 years old) chases him for food, or he does with a toy! Both had to be trained to treat each other with respect. Charlie is at the age where he can be trained to behave right ;-) But you need time to do that. Don't be afraid of anything. Dogs somehow, do respect children and usually are kind towards them, regardless of the children behaviour... well... this is not a golden rule though!

Depends though as I know of some kids who've been known to punch and kick and poke dogs in the eye and still the parents expect the dog to behave impeccably rather than modify the childs behaviour (one friend refuses to let her nephews in her house as their parents won't check their childrens unruly behaviour with her dogs).

I don't have kids but my two have been well socialized with them. However they do get fretful when kids are running around screaming and wielding sticks and their parents saying my dogs get nervous because they aren't used to kids (me am not sure why my dogs should get used to a small child attempting to whack my dog with a stick and then boot Wilf in the stomach because he stole a sandwich!).

My own point of view is that kids should be taught to behave around dogs and help them differentiate with their other toys. As someone else said don't exclude the dogs but may be apart from teaching the kids how to behave round dogs maybe distract the kids when the behaviour gets out of hand. Also make sure the dogs have a quiet time away from their attention occasionally so that tempers don't fray in even the best behaved dog

[Tracey J]

I agree with all the advice here.  The children have to be trained as well as the dog.  My girls have friends round and a few of them are afraid of dogs and the fuss they make makes Molly even more excited and boisterous.  We are making (slow) progress but sometimes I get really irritated when the parents react in the same way - any wonder their children are afraid of dogs.  There should be dog socialisation classes for kids - without exception .

We use the word 'calm' with Molly too, in a quiet low voice.  Seems to work wonders.

[Tidge]

Hi I agree with training the children to behave as well as the dog, although with the very young child, I wouldn't take the risk of allowing them to play together.  Toddlers can be very unpredictable, although I do think you should encourage supervised play, ie throwing a ball and saying 'sit' etc.

Good luck  

[cbabe]

I'm with the training the children side. You need to have them settled and quiet before you introduce the dog. Dogs react to what is going on around them - excited children will result in excited dog and vice vera! As the children are more likey to understand you need to get them under control first! They need to be sat down on a chair quietly playing before you bring the dog in. Try not to make an issue of him entering the room - no leads or excited chatter - get him to sit quiet with you (hold his collar if nessesary) while the children get on with their play (paying little attention to the dog). Let him watch untill he is settled enough not to bound over them. Test the water by allowing the kids to come over and stroke him and then walk away if they all manage to stay calm then he may be fine to walk round the room as they play.

Just take it slowly - if the children get excited or loud at any time take the dog out of the room untill you can get them settled again.

We have visiting children and most of the time the children are the manic ones! Controling the dogs is the easy bit!

Children who are raised with dogs just get on with it and don't cause a fuss. The ones who aren't get over excited, scared, emotional and creat a noise. Which gets the dog interested which makes the situation worse -

Good luck,any way!!


Clare

[gc]

Depends though as I know of some kids who've been known to punch and kick and poke dogs in the eye and still the parents expect the dog to behave impeccably rather than modify the childs behaviour (one friend refuses to let her nephews in her house as their parents won't check their childrens unruly behaviour with her dogs).
...
I don't have kids but my two have been well socialized with them. However they do get fretful when kids are running around screaming and wielding sticks and their parents saying my dogs get nervous because they aren't used to kids (me am not sure why my dogs should get used to a small child attempting to whack my dog with a stick and then boot Wilf in the stomach because he stole a sandwich!).

My own point of view is that kids should be taught to behave around dogs and help them differentiate with their other toys.
..............

true true... children should be trained too... I never let my kid to poke on Balu's eyes or drag her tail... I don't expect Balu to react 'in a nice manner', when she's in terrible pain! Altough I 'increased' her tolerance levels before the kiddo arrived home, I'm still very careful at both of them.

[PennyB]

I don't expect Balu to react 'in a nice manner', when she's in terrible pain!

Sadly some people do, and here my friend and I have seen too much lazy parenting around which contributes to this.

Its also the thought of impending pain to a dog if a child is wielding a stick in an attempt to thump the dog even if they don't actually do it. I just thought it was a lame excuse/wrong reasoning to give to a child to say don't hit them with a stick or drag them round being strangled by their collar because they're not used to children (as if its right to do this in dogs that are used to children) rather than suggesting that you just don't do that full stop to any living creature (and to some people—not on COL—I don't have an opinon as I don't have kids so am not allowed to argue that one).

Funny thing is its mostly been the young boys I have problems with as the girls (from very young up) have been brilliant and form part of the Ruby and Wilf fan club (there's usually a queue)!

[Silver Surfer (indiesnan)]

My children were brought up with dogs,( i don't like calling children kids. ) in fact we had dogs before we had children. The dogs and children, were taught respect and tolerance toward each other from the word go.

Nell was realy hyper as a pup,   and when my grandchildren came, we always put her on a lead till the initial excitment had passed.
it worked for us,   although now she still gets a bit excited, she knows not to jump
up, and does seem aware of her size.  ( Nell is a lab )

[gc]

Sadly some people do, and here my friend and I have seen too much lazy parenting around which contributes to this.

Its also the thought of impending pain to a dog if a child is wielding a stick in an attempt to thump the dog even if they don't actually do it. I just thought it was a lame excuse/wrong reasoning to give to a child to say don't hit them with a stick or drag them round being strangled by their collar because they're not used to children (as if its right to do this in dogs that are used to children) rather than suggesting that you just don't do that full stop to any living creature (and to some people—not on COL—I don't have an opinon as I don't have kids so am not allowed ot argue that one).

Funny thing is its mostly been the young boys I have problems with as the girls (from very young up) have been brilliant and form part of the Ruby and Wilf fan club (there's usually a queue)!

Agree,
I guess that first, parents should be trained, to train both dogs and children  
Well, usually girls do have a 'motherhood' instinct in their genes. Boys are just trying to pass their own word...
The best I've suceeded to have done with Nikolas and Balu is to distruct each one from the 'upcoming' fight... so for Balu is 'catch a ball' something, and for Nikolas to bring me the TV control or something else. Telling a toddler a constant *no*, has a reverse effect from the desired... Training is not easy on either side... but it's worth it

[padfoot]

Have to say I'm disgusted that some parents allow their children to treat dogs badly   (Not referring to the original post here obviously, but to some of the things Penny mentioned).

I would say the best thing to do to regarding small children and a dog is to invest in some portable stairgates to start with...so that they can get used to each other without the worry of the children pulling the dog or the dog jumping on the children. I would agree that it's probably not a good idea to bring the lead into it if he thinks it means walk time.
My youngest child is only a toddler and he is proof that any age child can be taught respect for dogs...and most dogs can be taught to respect small children who respect them.

We've just used very similar methods with the children and dogs. Toby was used to children when we had him, but had never lived with a child as young as Jacob. We used rewards for both Toby and Jacob when they behaved well with each other. We always supervised them, and made Toby sit when he was near Jacob, then encouraged Jacob to stoke him nicely.

With a bit of patience, it will all work out okay. It just takes effort and time to get them used to each other.

Good luck!!    

[Laura]

I agree with lots of excellent advice so far.  Putting children and dogs together almost turns into a double training session!  The children need to be rewarded for quiet calm play around a puppy/dog.  The puppy/dog needs to also be rewarded for calm behaviours round children.  Low activity from both sides promotes calmness and reduces high arousal states and everyone is happier all round

It is imperative that young children and puppies are never left alone without adult supervision.  The use of stairgates are wonderfull for allowing contact without the pup being alienated.  Dogs and children can then observe each other as well.

I clicker trained one child round Brogan when he was a puppy   - was a nightmare with him - to the point that I usually crated Brogan for his own safety.  One day though I decided to reward the child with a "good" and a smartie whenever calm around Brogan.  Brogan also got rewarded with a click and treat for ignoring the child and paying attention to me - hard work but a success!