Lazy Or Not Trained?

[KellyP]

Well Folks,

Jenni is a coming up for 9 months old and we still wouldn't trust her to stay dry / clean either overnight or just generally during the day, even when we are at home.

I honestly thought that in this new house, where she had never pee'd on the floor before that she would benefit from the re-inforcing of 'where to pee' , eg 'be clean, clean girl', gentle praise on 'performing' etc.
However it hasn't had any effect at all.
She simply won't 'ask' to  go out and unless you watch her every time she moves you could end up with a puddle... tonight it was on the brand new (as in only laid 4 days ago) hall carpet... much to Tristian's (and my) dismay.
We were both upstairs and she pootles off downstairs - and returns licking her lips (its quite warm up here so I presumed she'd gone for a drink) but oh no, horror of horrors she's peed on the hall carpet    
Millie would ask to go out at 9 months - and I know all dogs are different, but Jenni just appears to be lazy...  she peed practically at the bottom of the stairs, she didn't even go to the back door just to see if it was open (which it wasn't) she just seemed to pee at the first convenient spot .. unfortunately for our new carpet.

Now I understand all dogs progress differently, but I don't know what else we can do. I've even tried going 'back to basics' - i.e out for toilet after play, after feeding, after waking, first thing in morning, last at night, and always praise her when she goes outside and give her a cuddle when she comes in - not that she's interested in the cuddle though !

She is still very 'puppy' like in her movement and behaviour.. she still has that 'puppy bounce'  
so perhaps we're expecting too much ?

Has anyone any advice or similiar problems? It's quite embarassing really  
I seem to remember Colin having a similiar problem with Misty at some stage as well.. saying he wouldn't trust her regards toilet training ..

help please?

[*Jay*]

Hi Kelly,

Nice to have you back  Can't really help as both mine still don't ask to go out  Although, we do have quite a set routine regarding walks etc which I'm sure is why they are clean in the house  I know for a fact if I didn't take them for a walk, and it got to the point where they needed to go, they would do just do it in the house   Vegas took ages to click that he couldn't just pee wherever he wanted - maybe Jenni is going to be the same?  

In saying all that, woke up this morning to find a puddle on my hall floor  First one for about 18 months - whoever the culprit was, I think they were just trying to be helpful in reminding me whats to come in 3 weeks time  

Good luck!!!

[Miss Poohs]

Hi Kelly - have you had Jenni checked out for a urine infection? When we first got Vahri it was taking forever and a day to house train her, and I was starting to lose patience with her and I think she could sense it.

I called the vet for advice and they suggested I bring a urine sample up to the pratise for checking - turned out that was what it was.

After a course of antibiotics she was fine and cottoned on really quickly. Must have felt great for her too   . Ever had cystisis yourself?? Ouch!!!  

Rufus is now 18 weeks old and can more or less be trusted to hold on to it, only when he's really excited does he piddle now.

I'd get her checked out at the vet - just incase. Good luck.

[Shirley]

Gill, your two boys just seem to have more and more in common with mine      Neither Morgan nor Cooper have ever asked to go out and the situation is identical - if I didn't take them out and they desperately needed to pee they'd just do it in the house     Morgan can hold on much longer now and hasn't done anything for over a year but Cooper at 9 months will still occasionally leave a puddle through the night - not often, maybe once a fortnight which isn't too bad I suppose.

Kelly, you may just find that Jenni's going to be the same     Does Millie ask?  It's funny that Jenni's not copied her if she does!     Hope things improve soon - I know what a pain it is, always having to have a mop and bucket at the ready!!      

[*Jay*]

Gill, your two boys just seem to have more and more in common with mine   

Just like 4 peas in a pod    

[KellyP]

Millie doesn't exactly ask.. she paces around and around and gives a couple of long thoughtful stares at you. She will occasionally bark or grumble at the door, without being asked but not every time.
She will however bark if you ask her "what?" when she's pacing / stood at the door and then we let her out
So we have started saying 'what? what?" when we think they want out and getting them to bark before we open the door .. Millie knows what to do, so hopefully Jenni will catch on.
But Millie wouldn't mess in the house no matter how desperate she was, unless she was poorly, and we're 100% confident of that.. I don't have that degree of confidence with Jenni, and as a result she is crated at night and whenever we need to go out for more than an hour or 2.

We don't want her crated at all if we can help it, but she just can't be trusted, and I know she won't pee in the crate, so unfortunately in she goes.
Also the crate helps another of her little 'traits' in that if she isn't crated at night she's scratching down the doors downstairs at 5:30am.. but she's perfectly quiet when crated ..

She just makes no sense to me at all some times!      

[KellyP]

I think they were just trying to be helpful in reminding me whats to come in 3 weeks time  
 

In my haste to post a reply I missed this bit ..

3 weeks eh Gill ?? I have missed somthing here I feel.... are there piccies somewhere??      

[taniac]

You're not alone I have this with my 7mth old Jovi, he will go out if that back door is open, but if it's not (increasingly with the cold weather) and you don't notice that he's rushed off to the kitchen then you'll get a puddle.  Worse still he doesn't like the rain so he's been known to piddle almost on my feet even though the back door is open!!!

Jovi is crated overnight and so is dry, his crate is quite large so I'm not worried about him being in there, and think it'll be useful for when we go away on holiday.  I've been trying to get Jovi to bark on cue but he's very quiet and just won't, Neo is barking his head off but Jovi just looks at you with a quizzical expression  

Looking back at Neo being a puppy, I'm sure I still had puddles til about 10 months, he would be dry for ages and then suddenly mess.  I just tidied up and ignored it.. He only seemed to become dry when he started cocking to mark his territory, because he'd save it up for his walks. He doesn't ask to go out, but he'll do the coming and looking at you thing, and if you ask him if he wants toilet, he cocks his ears and runs to the kitchen.

All I'm doing right now with Jovi is to make sure he's let out every hour for a chance to go.  At night if hubby has done it already, he'll go out and just sit in the garden looking at the stars whilst I stand like a loony shouting hurry, hurry!!!    

[Rhona]

Hi

I had the same sort of problem but thankfully was only coming down to puddles in the morning.  We had Sam at the vet last week and it turned out he had a urine infection too.  He also had a slight temperature.   He got an antibiotic injection that night and has been having tablets this week.  He has also stopped wetting the floor so it really is worth having them checked over.  

It is now like christmas and birthdays all rolled into one when we come down in the morning and the floor is dry (I am not sure Sam knows why he is the best dog ever) but we all make a huge fuss of him so hopefully he has got the message.

Best of luck

[JoHarborne]

The first thing I would suggest is no more carpet!  Laminate floor - the answer to our prayers!!!

Woody is fully trained and asks to go out at 5.5 months.  I basically spent every waking minute by his side in his formative months and he got the message.  Reinforcement, praise, treats and trying to "pre-empt" him by getting familiar with his body language.  And if he left the room - I followed him!!!  Didn't trust him an inch and it paid off.

Quick plug for a great new cleaner I bought last week for laminates, tiles and linos - it washes and then SUCKS up the dirty water so is great for spills and piddles!!  Email me personally if you'd like any more info (I'm a humble housewife and not an undercover salesman I promise!!))    

[bluegirl]

Penny Piddles as she was called was a nightmare to toilet train, it did click at about 5 mths and this was really late for any pup that we had trained before. She wouldn't go to the door, we often came down to a puddle in the kitchen in the morning and she went in the house through the day aswell. She is a nervous dog and I put it down to that. I used to stand outside with her until she went and then praise her, but this felt like I was out more than in. During the day I needed to know her whereabouts all the time so I could check her and send her out appropriately.She still doesn't scratch or make a sound to go out, so you really need to be aware of her body language, but it is very rare these days to have a mishap and she is now 2yrs. We also tried changing her meal times and not feeding after 4pm and restricting fluid intake after 7pm at night to try to make a difference. These changes did help. I found that telling her off had the adverse effect, she knew she was a sinner, but to punish her meant she was more likely to have a subsequent mishap.  

[Colin]

Hi Kelly

Sorry, I missed this thread until now.

You are right, Misty was a nightmare when it came to toilet training. I had a brand new carpet too that she seemed to take great delight in soiling. Jimmy had been an absolute dream when it came to toilet training, he caught on instantly. I of course made the mistake of thinking it must have been my expert guidance that made him this way, but of course they are all just diifferent.

I can't offer any magical solution, I'm afraid. I was lucky in that Misty was clean overnight, her problems were during the day. Like you are doing, I went back to basics...... I took her out every hour, on the hour, working from home meant I  could do this. I can't remember at what age she learnt, 7/8 months maybe, it seems so long ago now. She never asked to go out properly either, she would just sit there staring at me and whimpering inaudibly. If I didn't notice/hear she'd just do it where she was sitting.

Good luck.  

[Bellbellsmum]

Hi, dont know if this is the way you want to go. but I bought the book How to train your dog in 7 days.  Off Amazon.  It recommends crate training and give a schedule of feeding and crating.  Its recommended for pups from 14 weeks and works on the dog wont pee in bed theory.  I have started to use it and refused to put paper down as this is giving the wrong message apparantly.

Its funny, as I'm typing this I am watching Bella with one eye as she piddles as she walks I swear. No matter how much I follow her round the house she waits until I look away and next thing  puddle.... would you believe it she just did it behind the bloody chair while typing this!!!  Quick clean up required.  Bye.  Get book. Let me know if it works!!

[*Jay*]

but I bought the book How to train your dog in 7 days. Off Amazon.

Think I've got that book! How to Housebreak Your Dog in 7 Days or something like that. Bought it in a moment of desperation  

[Bellbellsmum]

Hi Gill, dont suppose the book worked by any chance?