Suggestion for the Grooming Moderators

[Rhona W]

Buy a working cocker - quick comb of the ears every night and hey presto, you're good to go! 

  

Yep! That was one of the reasons we chose workers too!  A walk in the rain followed by a quick brush and they're done. 

(Sorry. Totally off topic.  )

[DennyK]

Wow - wasn't expecting such an enthusiastic response.

Michele/Pam/Gilly - I know it's easy for me to say (well, type!) since I'm not going to have to do the list.  I wasn't thinking that it should be a "Thou shall" and "Thou shalt not" type of thing - more of a milestones and issues to consider type thing along with the equipment.

For instance - your 8 week old puppy's fur may well be like this [description].  at this stage, you can just use comb X, brush Y.  If you use a Coat King this is what it does (strip/split/cut what???).  Pro's are this....cons are this.... (I didn't know till this week that Coat King can damage the coat and shouldn't be used if you want to show - I've merrily recommended them to others, as one of my colleagues nicely put it "without the impediment of the slightest bit of understanding"!).

I was never sure what was within normal (that word again) bounds at what stage of Paddy's development.  In the last week, one owner has said "oh well, at ten months this is what his coat is like for life unless you neuter" and another has said "oh, you won't have his adult coat finally "in" till he's about two".  So which is it nearer to be for a cocker??

Blimey.  Glad I only suggested that someone else does the work!

Denise

[Colin]

Denny, with a small puppy you only really need to get them used to the brush and you can also use straight scissors to tidy up paws, tail, whiskers, ear canals etc. The fluffy puppy coat is best left untouched until it is ready to give ( come out) - you can test this by using finger and thumb to pull it. For pet owners you can take it out with a Coat King, show dogs would need to be handstripped for a better finish. The puppy coat can start to give any time after about 6 months - probably closer to the 7/8 month mark

The Coat King is a good compromise for us pet owners but it can damage the coat. With Jimmy's pre-neutered coat it didn't affect it at all - but with Misty, some of the hair has started to grow back a bit coarser, also round the scruff of the neck it curls up and won't lie flat - so now needs to be trimmed with the thinners, but it will never be the same. Using thinners can make the fur grow back different too - particularly on the head, where it will grow back curly and wavy on a lot of Cockers. Jimmy has really fine hair on his head, so his hasn't been affected by thinners.

All of which goes to show how difficult it will be to do a full and comprehensive grooming guide - as different coats react in a different way to different methods. But I'll be interested to see what the experts come up with. 

[Ailsa]

Oh my god! Confused? You will be......!!!! My fluffy, curly, long eye-lashed, fur ball of gorgeousness is fine with a general brush at the moment, but after all that advice I think that I may just take her to a professional when its time for a trim!!

[Gilly]

Colin, I know what you mean with the Coat King and the effect it can have on some coats. I have had this problem with Buttons as I don't show her I opted for the Coat King option to keep her tidy. Since she's had her babies the neck area has become particularly difficult, doesn't help that she's got a few rolls of fat there either 
After going on holiday and then having to cope with matting on a huge scale (she was supposedly brushed everyday  ) I have given in and clippered her  Must admit I am more than delighted with the results as I didn't have to clip all her back just the neck area. I clipped the tops of her ears and also her chest in the same areas where I would use the thinners. IMHO a much better option for a pet trim and for a any dog who doesn't like to spend too long on the grooming table  I've still retained all her feathering so it's a show style trim but with minimum effort.
I haven't got very expensive clippers (Moser Rex) but they are exceptionally quiet and she seems to tolerate these far better than the thinning scissors.
Of course it's a different story with Gracie, all handstripping and thinners.

[Mary]

Colin, I know what you mean with the Coat King and the effect it can have on some coats. I have had this problem with Buttons as I don't show her I opted for the Coat King option to keep her tidy. Since she's had her babies the neck area has become particularly difficult, doesn't help that she's got a few rolls of fat there either 

Buttons is not the only one with rolls of fat around her neck, Lottie is just the same and I know Colin says the same about Misty

I don't hand strip but use a coat king instead. I have to say I don't use it that often, once a month at the most and Lotties coat is not course, it's fairly soft.  It does do the kinky thing around the neck though (as you can see in the photo I posted in this other thread:  http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=20933.0

[Gilly]

Oh yes, those are the rolls Mary 

[Michele]

As I like to put it, Neneh has always worn her dresses two sizes too big and she has rolls over her neck. I remember showing her under someone who has been in the breed for a VERY long time and she told me afterwards that she liked her "but she's carrying a bit too much winter weight". Would've been alright except the show was in August

Off subject sorry

PS Camera batteries are on charge, forgot to take it with me this morning and have now found it's dead anyway 

[Joelf]

What a useful thread this will be!!

I like to trim Domino myself; I quite enjoy doing it,also I don't like the "scalped to the skin" look which some groomers seem to do to cockers despite being told not to clip them too close!!

The Coat King is a good compromise for us pet owners but it can damage the coat. With Jimmy's pre-neutered coat it didn't affect it at all - but with Misty, some of the hair has started to grow back a bit coarser, also round the scruff of the neck it curls up and won't lie flat - so now needs to be trimmed with the thinners, but it will never be the same. Using thinners can make the fur grow back different too - particularly on the head, where it will grow back curly and wavy on a lot of Cockers. Jimmy has really fine hair on his head, so his hasn't been affected by thinners.

All of which goes to show how difficult it will be to do a full and comprehensive grooming guide - as different coats react in a different way to different methods. But I'll be interested to see what the experts come up with. 

Gosh,Colin; that's exactly how Domino's coat has gone on his head & neck. I use the thinning scissors on his head & the hair has grown quite wavy & curly on the top (a bit like mine,actually!! ) although I try to keep it quite short. He has got a small ruff at the base of his neck which I put down to his collar but perhaps it's due to over zealous use of the coat king.

[CraftySam]

While I've been reading this thread panic has been rising. 

I bought a Coat King before I got Barney as I'm not going to show him.  Barney's coat changed down the centre of his back a good couple of months ago to a richer gold, finer and softer, though it doesn't lie flat. On his sides it was very wooly washed out almost white hair which had started to come out a lot when I use the Spratts come.  He really did have a huge amount of it, so much so he looked like a barrel for months.

I'm waiting for a date to do a grooming course, but in the meantime I was trying to remove the hair that was coming away by hand using the Spratts comb, but I do have problems with my hands and was finding it quite painful. With the vast amount he had to come out I thought I'd never manage to do it all by hand so yesterday I used the Coat King for the first time and today I've just read that it can damage the coat.    I only used it on his sides and tops of legs, but it did remove alot of it though I have left some as I didn't want to overdo it, and I think he looks better, but will I have damaged his coat?  Should I not use it again?

He's really good on the grooming table and often falls asleep, though that's not always very helpful.  I've got him used to being on it since day 1 and got him used to different equipment so the length of time he's on the table isn't an issue.

Help! Any advice?

[Cob-Web]

When Molo was young, I panicked when I read that a coat king can damage the coat; until it was pointed about that its not considered "damage" unless you show the dog - its just a change in texture and appearance  Clipping and neutering can also have an effect on the coat; a different affect on different dogs 

I agree with Colin; I think a comprehensive grooming guide may be very difficult, if not impossible to acheive - as every dog, and every coat, is different - and so are the techniques used by experienced groomers 

[Michele]

I do have problems with my hands and was finding it quite painful.

Help! Any advice?

Sam, I have arthritis in my hands and also now find handstripping sometimes painful. My favourite for getting dead coat out is still a banded metal toothed comb 

[CraftySam]

I do have problems with my hands and was finding it quite painful.

Help! Any advice?

Sam, I have arthritis in my hands and also now find handstripping sometimes painful. My favourite for getting dead coat out is still a banded metal toothed comb 

Thanks Michele. I have a Spratts 76 comb, should I try and band that or a slightly wider tooth comb?

Will using the coat king this once have damaged his coad terribly for good?

I'm not going to show him, but I do want him to look nicely groomed. Hopefully I'll get a date for the grooming course soon, but in the meantime I try the banded comb, thanks again Michele. 

[Colin]

Will using the coat king this once have damaged his coat terribly for good?

I doubt it - as Rachel says it's more of a change of texture that can be caused, and not on all Cockers - it probably comes from repeated use. It's a matter of weighing up the pros and cons - I got fed up of having permanently numb finger and thumb so turned to the Coat King, it's also much quicker to use. I think for us pet owners it's a really useful tool and any 'damage' wouldn't be too noticable to us - although I'm sure experts like Jane and Michele could probably tell at a glance if a dog has been coat kinged rather than handstripped.

[cazza]

Buy a working cocker - quick comb of the ears every night and hey presto, you're good to go! 

  

Yep! That was one of the reasons we chose workers too!  A walk in the rain followed by a quick brush and they're done. 

A quick brush? Depends on how many burrs they have in amonst those ears surely. Fern is still finding mountains of them
(Sorry. Totally off topic.  )