two puppies together or just one

[Mike]

The only reason I didnt post earlier in ths thread is because I  misread/mistakenly assumed that Bunny meant she was going to get a second pup - I saw that Elmo was 10 months old, and I thought 'okay, a bit early, but could be okay'... now I'm horrified! Bunny, if only you knew what some of our members, current and old, have been through raising two pups of similar ages, you would seriously reconsider The opposite side to the coin to the fact that 2 pups can and often do bond too strongly together is that such a rivalry can result between them - in time, the fighting gets progressively worse, no holding back, and the ONLY way forward once they start to fight to this extent, is to rehome one or the other - keeping both can result in some serious injuries. If Elmo has some fear issues as other people have stated, then he's going to end up a nervous wreck                    

[bunny]

i have always been open to what people said, or i wouldnt have bothered my backside to ask in the first place, and i have chatted long and hard to different people, i totally object to people saying i made my mind up beforehand and not listened, laura knows for one, as i told her i had discussions with the family,( i have four adults in the home, and i am at home all day,)and i also have chatted to people with three and sometimes more cockers, and  the breeder, the welfare has and is the  most important of any decision, i made, and some letters have insinuated to my mind anyway that elmo is neglected in this decision, or in the future with this decision, have i got to agree with all of you, is it wrong to do what i think is right or i can achieve, as i joined with elmo and then went onto discuss two more puppies i thought it was fairly obvious, i am sorry if this sounds angry, but i feel some comments were rather personal, other than helpfull. i feel very angry and sad that i have to write this in the first place to defend myself and my actions, why have others managed this successfully?  none of you know my situation or me, or the breeder, i asked for opionions on the cockers eg, their relationship to each other including being aggressive etc,  not on whats in my own mind. :x

PS i  said some dogs scard of not all, and i said why, but he is a lot better now due to hard work  on my part                    

[lizzy]

Sorry to go on Bunny, but I think Colin made a very good point about how the puppies might affect Elmo and his fear of other dog's.

I can't stress this strongly enough, please sort out Elmo's problems before you bring your pups home, or you could have major problems with all three.

Fear in dogs is very hard to rid and it needs careful handling, sometimes taking many months or years to get over, it would be terrible if the puppies learnt this fear from Elmo.

My first dog Molly had a real fear of Border Collie's ( she was attacked by one when she was tiny ) it has taken over a year to help her gain confidence around dogs, ( she'll never be really happy when she meets a Border Collie ) but i had to make sure it did'nt rub of Evie who is now 6 months old because the last thing I wanted was 2 fearful dogs.

Please don't feel like we are trying to get at you, we are just worried that  you are biting of more than you can chew.

If you are adamant that you want 2 pups, why not reconsider waiting till Elmo has reached maturity , give him a chance to grow up fully?                    

[lizzy]

Bunny,

I don't think anybody has insinuated you are neglecting Elmo, I certainly don't think so.

I don't understand why you asked the question in the first place if you were'nt going to listen to the answer's, people were just being honest and nobody wants to upset you I'm sure.

Lizzy Molly and Evie                    

[bunny]

i am only going to say this once more  I DID LISTEN TO WHAT EVERYONE HAD TO SAY, i then went onto make a decison that we felt as a family was right.
That is why the letter i wrote back in page 2, in part said" it has been a mixed bag". MEANING of peoples opinions.
I do not mind people having their opinions, we live in a free world here anyway, a democratic society, but i do mind when i feel it is personal, it is not that it hasnt been done successfully, and more than perhaps some realise,  and for the record elmo so far has had fun with a golden retriever, a great dane, and other cockers, and a collie.
I would like to add that i have had several remarks about how well behaved he is, and what control he has at a young age, i take him to an old folks home weekly, where he is patted and loved.
Just because i make a decision that is different to the biggest percentage on here, not elsewhere, does not mean i have not listened, and also the breeder who is now my friend, knows my situation, has met elmo, and knows her dogs.                    

[Hel]

why have others managed this successfully?  

I doubt few on this forum have managed with three puppies at the same time - Elmo is still a puppy.

Bunny - stop being angry and think sensibly about having three puppies, two of which are littermates (brothers?) and another which is likely to be a very close relation.  No one is having a go at you, we are just shocked that the breeder would ever consider such a set up for their pups.  The breeder is therefore not a responsible one - however much you may like her.  

If you go ahead, you are setting yourself up for a serious fall and it is the dogs which will come out the worse.  The problems probably won't surface immediately - so you wil be able to think we are wrong - but wait until you have two 1 year olds and a 22 month old - particularly if they are all male and related.  It will get worse when the twins are 18 months, 2 years and 30 months old.

Unless you are very exceptional, have more knowledge of dogs together than posters on here, and are brilliant at training, it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Rather than try to prove that we are wrong, please think of all the dogs' well-being.

Edited to add: the same applies however well-behaved Elmo is now.                    

[lizzy]

I was writing my last but one post as you were posting yours ( explaining that you had listened to  the views of everybody ).

Don't worry I won't bother replying to any of your posts again.

Lizzy Molly and Evie                    

[bunny]

this is getting silly, :roll:  i am not trying to prove you all wrong, where in my last text did it say that or anything close, i am telling you what elmo is like.
I do care about the dogs, if i didnt, i would not have put all the hours into chatting and meeting with others in a similar vein.
I am angry at certain comments NOT because people(some) think it is not a good idea,
PERSONAL comments is what i have ISSUE with NOT because someone has disagreed with me.
THE WELFARE IS OF MY UPMOST CONSIDERATION, i hope this is crystal clear now to EVERYONE
PS sorry you feel that way, but  you have to accept my opinion as i have yours                    

[Katina]

Bunny have you thought about what you're going to do if something does go wrong (not saying that it will happen, but the risk is there)? Do you have the time and space to keep them separately, walk them separately, feed them separately etc, if they at some point start fighting each other?
Do you know what it's like to have two dogs that hate each others guts in the same house. Do you know what it's like to come home and find blood everywhere and one of your dogs nearly dead ? Do you know what it's like to have two dogs that you can't even let in the garden together?
Of course this is a horror scenario, but it has happened, to me.
Giving her to a new home was the hardest thing I have ever had to do, as she had already been to many homes before mine, and I had promised her that with me she was at her forever home (little did I know  :cry: ). Should've known really that two dominant bithces aren't a very good match..
Anyway, I found a good home for her (my parents   ), where she's been now for over 2 years and everyone is perfectly happy.

So please, please think again, it's not easy to part with your loved ones if something does go wrong   .                    

[Hel]

OK Bunnie, you are still angry.

Can you answer a factual question?  What is the relationship between Elmo and the pups - do they share the same mother, father, both or none?                    

[padfoot]

No one is having a go at you, we are just shocked that the breeder would ever consider such a set up for their pups.  The breeder is therefore not a responsible one - however much you may like her.

Must admit, I agree with this...I am surprised a breeder would allow this set-up to happen.

I've never owned littermates, but I have fostered several sets of sibling puppies and it's a bit of a nightmare...so far I've only fostered male littermates, but EVERY set has fought almost all the time they have been awake...it's suprising how nasty puppy fights can be too. It's very hard to give individual training to two small puppies too. The chances are they will become bonded to each other, and will therefore not be as praise-motivated during house training and so on...meaning much more than "double the work".

However, if you have decided to go ahead anyway, I do wish you luck with your dogs, and I genuinely hope you make a success of it somehow.                    

[Jane S]

Bunny it is understandable you are feeling defensive as your decision is being criticised but you did ask for opinions & those opinions are not necessarily going to be what you want to hear. It did appear that you were focusing only on the positives & ignoring the negatives but if you say you have considered fully all the negatives, then fair enough. You also say you have talked to people with 3+ dogs but its not the number of Cockers you are taking on we are worried about but their closeness in age & the fact they may all be the same sex & closely related. I find it inconceivable that any experienced breeder (however nice she may be) has not warned you of the possible problems you may face - these are not in our imaginations, they are real & have caused many owners much heartache (perhaps your breeder is unaware of the potential problems as not all breeders have experience of raising litter mates into adulthood). As Hel says, the problems won't necessarily arise when they are cute puppies but when they are older - you will have a pack of 3 similarly aged, same sex (maybe?), closely related dogs, not usually a recipe for canine harmony (any good dog behaviour book will tell you why not). Anyway, I truly hope it does all work out for you & your dog(s) but rather you than me :wink:

Jane                    

[shonajoy]

I'm sorry Bunny but I don't think anything got personal. You did in fact make it personal when you asked for advice on your own situation.

I am learning every day from this site, and while I don't always take the advice offered, I accept it in the spirit which is is intended - to share the wealth of experience and knowledge on this board, from showers, breeders, and dog lovers.

I think if you ask for advice, you have to be aware that it may not be what you want to hear.

I hope you realise that no one is out to get you or spoil things, everyone here just loves the breed.

Shona                    

[bonnie and ben]

We have got 2 pups a dog and a bitch which we did with the full agreement of the breeder. we have had them both from 9 weeks and while there has been the odd problem weeing etc all has been ok

The dog is so easy to train and both seem to be bonding with all members of the family - we are now in the process at 13 weeks of taking them to socialisation classes.

Both bonnie and ben have slept well at night in their caged area and have never moaned groaned yelped or any other such problem at night.

They are settled well into a routine and both are receptive to training while out walking and in the garden area.

I note other peoples concerns but we have been lucky to be blessed with 2 great natured animals and long may it continue.

Bonnie and Ben                                

[Pammy]

Bonnie and Ben - welcome to the group

With respect - at 13 weeks you do not know if it is going to work out. It is when they are older and reaching sexual maturity and adolescence that the problems are more likely to start.

I hope your situation does work out, but yours appears to be different from the one being discussed here. nevertheless, if Bunny does go ahead - perhaps you would be able to offer some pointers.