Author Topic: Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier  (Read 5629 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Colin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7292
  • Stevie
    • Jimmy Misty & Stevie Videos
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2005, 01:58:26 PM »

Hi Claire

What a scary incident - glad to hear that Bella is relatively unscathed.

The whole on-lead/off-lead debate is a difficult one - if we never let our dogs off lead then they'd never learn anything about inter-dog relations, or how to obey our commands. There does seem to be different etiquette around the country though. I'm also in London and in most parks people seem to be generally understanding and want their dogs to socialise and let them meet and greet without getting panicky - however in other parts of the country I've noticed  people automatically put their dogs on-lead as soon as they see another dog coming, regardless of whether or not it's leashed. The law would always be on the side of the dog that is on-lead but I think it's upto the owners of aggressive dogs to warn people off well in advance if they can - the trouble is I think some owners of such dogs are either too embarrassed to admit how unfriendly their dog is or just keep their fingers crossed that "this time" it won't cause trouble.  I have to say though on a single walk in a London park we can come across as many as 35 dogs in the space of an hour - it's just not feasible to keep putting them on lead all the time just in case the other dog might be aggressive - it's more a case of being vigilant and second guessing from either the other dog or it's owner's body language whether their might be a potential for trouble.

Offline kookie

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 924
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2005, 02:10:51 PM »
I feel the BT should have been muzzled too. If you know your dog is a risk to others in a public place, I think is inescusable. It was bad enough that is was your dog, it could gave been a child.
Love from Karen and Livvy

Offline clairep4

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2922
  • Gender: Female
  • The Two Muppeteers!
    • Chow Bella Pet Bowls
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2005, 03:00:58 PM »
Quote
Hi Claire

What a scary incident - glad to hear that Bella is relatively unscathed.

The whole on-lead/off-lead debate is a difficult one - if we never let our dogs off lead then they'd never learn anything about inter-dog relations, or how to obey our commands. There does seem to be different etiquette around the country though. I'm also in London and in most parks people seem to be generally understanding and want their dogs to socialise and let them meet and greet without getting panicky - however in other parts of the country I've noticed  people automatically put their dogs on-lead as soon as they see another dog coming, regardless of whether or not it's leashed. The law would always be on the side of the dog that is on-lead but I think it's upto the owners of aggressive dogs to warn people off well in advance if they can - the trouble is I think some owners of such dogs are either too embarrassed to admit how unfriendly their dog is or just keep their fingers crossed that "this time" it won't cause trouble.  I have to say though on a single walk in a London park we can come across as many as 35 dogs in the space of an hour - it's just not feasible to keep putting them on lead all the time just in case the other dog might be aggressive - it's more a case of being vigilant and second guessing from either the other dog or it's owner's body language whether their might be a potential for trouble.
[snapback]130582[/snapback]

Thanks for that, Colin - I'd actually been thinking the same thing earlier on (after my last post), that the etiquette probably varies from place to place. My mum lives in the middle of nowhere in Cumbria so is likely to bump into maybe 1 or 2 other dog walkers during a 2 hour walk, and there is masses of space to avoid each other if needed. In my local park I can guarantee I'll meet at least 8 other dog walkers on a 20min walk at 7am and maybe one of them will be on a lead but all the rest are allowed a free run to play with each other and there have never been any problems (apart from the one dog on a long flexilead which is not under control as it is allowed to wind the lead round and round the owner and/or other people while it plays with other dogs).

Oxleas wood, where the attack happened, is full of dogs off lead (like you've said, Colin, you'll meet 35+ on a walk) and that's why I was so affronted at being told by the BT's owner to keep Bella on the lead (never mind muzzled!!). It's a dog walking park in London so 80% of people have their dogs offlead - so to take a dog that you know is aggressive to a place like that and expect everybody else to guarantee that their dogs won't ever approach you, is asking alot, I feel. Other people there do have their dogs in muzzles (eg greyhounds because there have been a few cats killed), off lead, and there are no problems with them, and if this woman had her dog in a muzzle then neither it, nor Bella, would be having yet another trip to the vet's. Thankfully Bella is very well-trained in playfighting and did not roll over and show her belly, but stayed standing up holding onto the dog, and that is probably what saved her.

Anyway we've been to the vet's, "massive bruising" is the diagnosis (you can see under the swelling its going all purple) so at least there are no puncture wounds. He saw her bite plane and said the BT must've been taking the mickey out of her braces!  :P  She's feeling quite alot better today, back to being a pesky little thief, so she'll be fine in no time at all.

I'll just make sure that in future she doesn't approach anyone sitting down holding their dog by its collar - it happened when we'd just got into the park and the woman was tucked around a corner so I hadn't really had time to assess anything, so will be more wary next time.
Claire, Bella & Zorro - the two muppeteers!
Tellington TTouch Practitioner P1
www.tellingtontouch.org.uk

Offline Cayley

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1547
  • Gender: Female
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2005, 04:23:08 PM »
I'm not taking sides here, but I'd just like to add, that when I see a dog on a lead (whether it be a tiny yorkie or a great Dane) I call mine well away, as it's usually on a lead for a reason. Most dogs when restrained (on lead or by collar) feel insecure because they can't get away, nor can they effectively defend themselves from all angles. Regarding muzzling making things tickety boo, even if the dog wore a muzzle and was running free, it could do just as much damage as without one because the power behind the solid plastic muzzle would still cause severe damage just without the puncture wounds. Imagine getting hit in the face with a plastic board by someone who's three times your size, that would be painful  :blink: .
Out of interest, was the BT on a lead aswell as being held by the collar?
Cayley.

Offline Pammy

  • Inactive
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5702
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2005, 04:36:37 PM »
Quote
I'll just make sure that in future she doesn't approach anyone sitting down holding their dog by its collar - it happened when we'd just got into the park and the woman was tucked around a corner so I hadn't really had time to assess anything, so will be more wary next time.
[snapback]130592[/snapback]


I think that's the key here - if you can't see clearly what's ahead then be prepared. But it's not just about people sitting down holding a dog by the collar. It's about approaching any dog or person with respect. I'm sorry but I get really fed up when people think their dog has the absolute right to be running around free and that it's other people's responsibility to look out for this unknown quantity that is not under control. But there clearly seems to be different accepted levels in different areas.

Generally people in this area are considerate - not all I hasten to add, and if they see a dog on lead they recall theirs and reciprocate. The only ones I've seen any problem with are those off lead. We always pull our boys in when approaching anyone else and gently allpw them more line when all looks well, not just because the other dog may be nasty - but also because it might be very nervous and I'd hate my boys to scare another dog when it could be avoided.

It would be truly lovely if all dogs could run free and there not be any trouble, but sadly this is not the case. They are dogs with canine instinct not humans with human reasoning and believe me - a cocker is just as capable of the response this BT showed then any other dog.

I am concerned that most seem to have tried and judged this BT from this single angle of events and wonder how you might feel if the boot had been on the other foot. I'm not condoning what happened, but the owner had hold of him. How do we know he's done this before and therefore should be muzzled. yes Bella was hurt which is awful - but so was the BT so are we also saying that Bella should be muzzled. She's drawn blood!
Pam n the boys

Growing old is compulsory growing up is optional

Offline Sharon

  • Inactive
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2420
  • Gender: Female
  • Bramble
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2005, 04:37:18 PM »
Hi Claire

So sorry to hear about poor Bellas nasty experience, glad to hear she didn't come off too badly, I have to agree, the BT should have been on a lead, if the owner had to hold it back then surely she knew it was going to be unpredictable.

Big cocker kisses and licks from mum Daisy, nanny Rosie.

Sharon

Offline Becky

  • Site Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • http://
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2005, 05:29:54 PM »
This must have been awful for you and Bella and I'm glad she's okay.  Perhaps the lady wanted Bella called off because her dog is nervous, or undergoing training.  I think it is wise to stop our dogs approaching restrained dogs.  The only time Toby, my parents' Staffie/Bullie cross has been nasty to Ollie is when my Mum held him back by the collar and let Ollie sniff him etc.  I think he felt very insecure, as they are really the best of mates.  Hope Bella is feeling better soon. :D
Love Becky, Danny and Ollie!

Offline Colin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7292
  • Stevie
    • Jimmy Misty & Stevie Videos
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2005, 05:44:27 PM »
Out of interest, how do those of you who never let your own dogs off lead near strange dogs socialise them so that they learn how to behave around other dogs ? I've always found that when dogs meet, if either one or the other (or both) is on-lead it is more likely to cause conflict as they have had the flight option removed and so are more likely to become wary and defensive - reining in the lead when you approach another dog surely sends the wrong signal to your dog too, suggesting there's a need for it to be defensive. It's difficult to get the right balance but I've found it better to let dogs approach each other and use their own language to communicate - I'm just ready to step in if things look likely to go wrong.

There definitely does seem to be a difference around the country as to how people deal with this. I look for signs from the other owner as to whether I need to put my own dogs on-lead, there's no way I'd do it automatically everytime I see a dog approaching and nobody else round here does either - London dogs would be permanently on lead if we all did that.

 In the defence of owners with aggressive dogs - I can see why they may have a certain reluctance to use muzzles as it then leaves their own dog open to attack with no means of defending itself. It seems there's no black and white with this isuue - it just requires people to be understanding of differing viewpoints.

Offline amanda

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
  • Gender: Female
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2005, 05:52:35 PM »
My parents always used to get their labrador and their alsation back on their leads or hold onto their collars and ask the owners to call their dogs off when passing by other dogs or if another dog was approaching, not becase they are agressive, as they were both as soft as muck, but because they could both be very boisterous with other dogs, and you can never guess how the other dog will react to such behaviour and also, they didn't know the nature of the dog coming upto them, and the approaching dog could well have been a menace.
I was in a smilar situation yesterday. I took Indie round to my uncle's house to introduce him to their 2 dalmations, a father and daughter. The male was aged to and the daughter was 4 months old. As soon as we walked through the gate, The male attacked indie and grabbed his face. Indie was on a lead, the other dog wasn't, but it saw indie as a male dog invading his territory. You have to be so careful withdogs you don't know. Especially such strong breeds.

I'm not taking any sides as i can see both sides to the mishap, Hopefully lessons have been learnt on both sides.
Amanda, Indie and Zephie


Offline clairep4

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2922
  • Gender: Female
  • The Two Muppeteers!
    • Chow Bella Pet Bowls
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2005, 05:53:58 PM »
I agree, Colin - I take Bella to 5 or 6 different parks round here and the etiquette is always that people are allowed to let their dogs run around off-lead. If somebody I am approaching looks a bit nervous about Bella then I'll either put her on the lead or go a different direction and I usually try and avoid people with their dogs on a lead because Bella can be very bouncy and and a dog that's restrained can't get away from that.

If the BT had been with the owner walking along on a lead, for example, I would definitely have gone in another direction with Bella (or put her on the lead). But the owner was sitting on the grass with the dog sitting next to her and there were no signs that it was aggressive, and as I said earlier, she watched Bella approaching from about 100 yards away and only when she was very close did she ask me to call Bella away. The park warden said that the BT had been running around in the woods earlier and it may well be that had Bella met it off lead, there would have been no problem, and that it was only because it was being held by the collar that it felt the need to lunge at her.

As a dog owner in London I am in favour of people's dogs being allowed to be off lead in the park, as long as the owners are responsible, the dogs have been well socialised and can be got under control if needed. Personally if I thought I had to keep Bella on the lead all the time then I probably wouldn't have brought her home in the first place, but I know there are people who feel differently to that so please don't be offended, it's merely my opinion.

I'd be interested to know how people whose dogs are always on the lead are socialised etc as well.
Claire, Bella & Zorro - the two muppeteers!
Tellington TTouch Practitioner P1
www.tellingtontouch.org.uk

Offline Becky

  • Site Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • http://
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2005, 05:54:34 PM »
I do let my dogs off lead.  For free running we go to a very dog friendly beach with grassy walks along side.  Virtually every dog there is off lead and it's all very sociable for dogs and owners.  Therefore, if we see a dog on a lead, we can be fairly sure it's for a reason, be that aggression, fear, nervousness, training or some other reason.  I don't let the boys bound over to these dogs, but if the owners say it's okay when they see me call them off, then I let them go. :D The main reason I do this is because I don't want other owners to think badly of us, not out of fear of the boys being attacked.  Maybe I'm too fussy, as a lot of others we meet don't.
Love Becky, Danny and Ollie!

Offline amanda

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
  • Gender: Female
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2005, 05:56:14 PM »
Colin, When i'm walking Indie off lead,and I see another dog approaching that we don't know, I generally call Indie back and hold onto his collar as we pass the other dog, if i'm told that the other dog is friendly, i'll let him go so that they can have a sniff and a play if they want to. I can see this would be inpractical in such a busy dog walking are as you develop a bad back or stoop due to cockers being quite low down. :P
Amanda, Indie and Zephie


Offline Pammy

  • Inactive
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5702
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2005, 06:04:53 PM »
my boys when on lead in open places are always on extending leads, we bring them in close and lock the leads until we know things are OK. If they are off lead and we see other dogs approaching we call the boys back and see how the other dog/s look and how their owners look too. Most of the time - they have a little sniff then just carry on doing what they were up to and ignore each other.

The main thing is that if you see another dog on lead or restrained, then they deserve the respect of other dog's being under control when they get near.
Pam n the boys

Growing old is compulsory growing up is optional

Offline Silver Surfer (indiesnan)

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4385
  • Gender: Female
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2005, 06:10:40 PM »
As the owner of a very large and boisterous but VERY friendly Lab   :rolleyes:  i usualy put Nell back on the lead, if the dog approaching is  on the lead. i don't think it's fair to have her hurtling over  i just think it's manners.   ;) I don't think it matters what size or breed the dog is either, a bite is a bite from whatever size, and TBH ive seen terriers do an awful lot of damage  :huh:
My other Lab Meg was attacked at six months by a male Lab  :o she never got over the shock  :(  all the work we had done to socialize her had gone out the window, she was never the same again  :(  So the last thing i want is for my girl to frighten the life out of someone elses dog  whether its a Spaniel or a Rottie JMO  ;)
* Barb & Nell * ~~He who claims he knows, knows nothing. He who claims nothing knows~~

Offline Mary

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3828
Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2005, 06:12:51 PM »
I'm fairly lucky as Lottie is extremely cautious and would not approach a dog she didn't know without standing well back and trying to suss the dog out first.  Maybe that is because she was attacked twice when she was younger, who knows? :huh:

She seems to be a very good judge of character but like Colin says, I'm there as back-up ;)  Obviously, if I get the vibes that a dog is 'dodgy' I would call Lottie over but believe me, she usually spots them first :D

If someone puts their dog on a lead whilst we're approaching or passing, I always call Lottie to heal, distracting her with a treat even though I know she would not bother that dog.  I just feel if someone feels they have to go to those measures then I oblige by calling Lottie over.  This is not for my benefit but to give reassurance to the other owner ;)
Mary & Lottie x