Why doesn't my cocker look the same (been to Crufts)

[padfoot]

I went to Crufts today  
I saw lots of cockers and the one thing I couldn't help but notice is that Toby looked different to them. He has shorter ears, a shorter coat and is quite a lot taller and slimmer than them.
In build he resembled the springer spaniels more than the cockers but his face is very much like a cocker.
I have a photocopy of his pedigree and registration details (with the Irish Kennel club), the lady at the rescue sent it over. So he is not a cross.
Is it simply because the cockers we saw today are show quality dogs? I mentioned it to one lady there (if she is someone from these pages then hello and thanks for being so nice   ) and she asked if he is a working cocker, but I don't really know much about this and I presume that working cockers don't come in the golden colour anyway?                    

[Loraine]

Your cocker is the image of my first one called Ceri.  She too was from Ireland.  I didn't realise it at the time but she was a working cocker and I think your Toby must be too.

Loraine                      

[cindere528]

I may be wrong here & if I am, I apologise, but I was always led to understand that "show" cockers are always a lot smaller & more highly strung than the average run of the mill pet cocker.  Whether it's due to their diet or exercise regime or what I don't know.  

When you think about it though, if you had 2 children, both from the same parents & you mollycoddled one & gave it precise textbook amounts of food & exercise.  If you treated the other one as a normal average child, with a varied diet, some days lots of exercise, some days less, then you would end up with one child growing bigger & being better balanced (the normal one) & the mollycoddled one would be smaller & more highly strung.  My view (rightly or wrongly) is that this is what happens with "show" dogs.

I bet I've opened a can of worms here & I'll be shot down in flames. But hey, never mind, it's a learning curve.                      

[KellyP]

You've kinda got it back to front a bit Cindere

Working cockers are kinda smaller and more 'active' although I'm not sure about highly strung, depends on what you class as highly strung.
Most pet cockers are 'show-type' cockers, although some people have working type becuase it suits them (they're active people / live in the country / don't want to have to spend too much time grooming)

You could be getting confused with American Cocker spaniels .. they're usually used as show dogs, are smaller, and can be quite highly strung, but like English cockers can also be very loving and loyal too

HTH .. and I hope I got it right                    

[padfoot]

I've posted a new picture in the Solids section of the gallery so people can see what I mean.
Loraine...can you get golden working cockers then? I just presumed they were bred in Springer-type colours (liver and white etc), not sure why.                    

[cindere528]

Kelly, I was under the impression that "working" cockers were bigger than "show" dogs, not the other way round. I was once told by a groomer that my dog was way too big to be a show dog, I said "that's OK, he's a pet, not a show dog" & I never went back to her again!  

I'm not confusing them with their American cousins, they're very different in appearance but I don't know anything about the American cocker temperament.                      

[KellyP]

perhaps I'm wrong on the working front .. working cockers I have met have always kinda been shorter, with longer bodies ... perhaps they weren't full working cockers ?

Just because your cocker is 'way too big' to be a show dog doesn't mean he's not a 'show type' cocker - it just means he's a big boy, and if you did how him it might go against him. As you don't it doesn't matter how big he is

From your picture Kelly, Toby does look a bit like other working types I've seen - but it could just be the angle of the photo And working types can come in many colours, just like they show variety cousins

edited to add - we discussed this a qhile back ... here's the link

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/forum/viewt...opic.php?t=3259                    

[Loraine]

Padfoot, I've just had a look and in this picture he has more feathering that I'd noticed from his other pic so I'm not sure at all.   :?  Sorry to confuse you.  

You can get solid coloured working cockers though - they aren't all roan.

Loraine                      

[padfoot]

Just wondering...could he be half and half and still registered as a cocker spaniel, does it make any difference? He is much taller than the cockers we saw today. He is 18 inches at the withers and very leggy. But the height thing doesn't seem to tally with what people said in the previous thread (thanks for the link Kelly).
However, he does look quite different in terms of coat, ears etc, than any of the dogs we saw today. Would he have less coat because he is only eight months old?                    

[Jane S]

Working Cockers come in all different shapes & sizes & the same range of colours as the show-type Cocker. Some Working Cockers I've seen are much smaller than my own show Cockers and some are bigger & heavier. Some Working Cockers are incredibly highly-strung in the sense that they need lots and lots of mental stimulation to keep them satisfied Show Cockers (Cockers that are shown as opposed to show-type Cockers) are no different in temperament to the average pet Cocker - they all share the same breeding lines more often than not. They also vary in size in just the same way that pet Cockers vary in size. I groom a lot of purely pet Cockers and some are tiny and some are really huge

Some gold Cockers do not have much coat even if they are the show- type (show-type meaning the type of Cocker most often seen as pets not necessarily capable of being shown) I've seen photos of Toby & don't think he's a Working Cocker although it's hard to say. If you want to send me his pedigree Padfoot, I'll probably be able to get more of an indication. Remember that show-type does not mean show quality - commercial breeders do not breed to the Breed Standard in the way that show breeders try to which is why Cockers from puppy farms/dealers may not look a whole lot like the Cockers you see at Crufts :wink: I've seen some puppy farm "Cockers" where it is very difficult to tell what breed they are meant to be

Jane                    

[ziggy]

hi all,i had a working cocker,,and they are smaller,they have more of a sharper muzzle and squarer head,the small one,s are or used to be favoured in the working world as they got into the thick bushes better,mine was a red,with a white blaze down the front of her head,many people thought she was a cross,but she wasn,t they were just used to seeing the show one,s,,unfortunately she died,at the age of two,her name was ruby,and she was a super clever dog,never quite got over her,probably never will :cry:                    

[ziggy]

i should add that they can be smaller,and i also had one that was rather mental,,the best thing probably would be to contact a working cocker breeder you will recieve all the info you need,the breeder i had ruby from did say that many a buyer did phone back in despair not knowing what to do with a worker,,i have also heard alot of horror stories too.that is just my experience,,i don,t know every aspect of the breed i just luv em,,x                    

[Jane S]

Working Cockers are not always smaller Ziggy - there is as much variation in Working Cockers as there is in the show/pet-type                    

[ziggy]

yes jane you are right ,,like i said they can be smaller but i,m only talking about my experience,,i,m always happy to learn more about these beautiful dogs, by the way you are a great help and very friendly,thanx,ziggy :wink: