Scooby Being A Naughty Boy With Kids!

[shonajoy]

i agree with jo,some children have absolutely no fear of dogs and think they are just like teddies.i think all parents should teach kids that although most dogs look cute,some may not be happy to be petted and therefore they should ask the dogs owner if it's ok.
i also think that some of the posts on here have been very unsupportive towards scoobysmum,i have been very shocked at the negative responses when i'm sure all she wanted was a little reasurence(sp)we are all dog lovers here and we can all make mistakes,it's when we make mistakes that we need people to listen and understand not critisise(sp sorry to much wine last night methinks),i'm sure she is upset enough already.has no one on here ever made a mistake before and wanted to share it with friends?

[snapback]157794[/snapback]

 I agree too - I think the posts could have got the message across in a nicer way-it depends on who is saying it

[miche]

I guess this is correct as our Good Cit. Dog Scheme trainer told us but a dog doesn't actually have to bite anyone these days, just frightening some-one is now an offence

Any-one know if this is true - sorry to go away from Scooby's mums thread slightly.

[Mille]

I agree that some of the responses sounded quite harsh, but I suppose the situation where a dog bites a child is so terrifying that it triggers all of us at some level...

From my pov it sounds like Scooby + family needs to see someone together who will explain dog behaviour like this and maybe teach the kids in the family to look out for signs in the future.

Maybe Scooby doesn't really know his place in the family, if he is as dominant as he is described? Sometimes a dog will be happier to know that he is the lowest in the hiarchy and that he doesn't have to defend himself or his family from outside threats.

I'm sure it will be okay though, the fact that it is taken seriously will help the family sort it out. Seek help, so that even the children understand why he behaves like that!

Good luck!

[Colin]

My own vet does have a doggie behaviour specialist and I have chatted to her on the phone when this first happened a few months ago - she immediately advised me to have him castrated and said it was definetly dominant behaviour (she knows Scooby from the puppy classes).  Like you say, it's sounds like nervous aggression so I think I'll have to look further afield for help.

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I think you are right to look elsewhere for help - how could a behaviourist diagnose a dog in the situation you've described, cowering behind it's owner's legs as being "dominant" ?   As Jane says, it's quite clearly Scooby is suffering from fear aggression in such situations -  I can't see how removal of Scooby's testicles would miraculously make him less fearful around kids either. How does that work ?    

I also think you are doing the right thing by leaving Scooby at home from now on when collecting the kids from school. I'd try and avoid any situation that is likely to upset him and make him nervous, defensive and possibly react badly - it is more likely to exaccerbate the problem than cure it. Hopefully you can find Scooby a good behaviourist - one that isn't wrapped up in all this outdated dominance/ pack theory nonsense would be a good start.    Good luck.

[Jan/Billy]

  A few tried to stroke him and I told them not to, however, this one little girl came from behind and he immediately jumped up at her growling and bit the fleece she was wearing.

 

[snapback]157059[/snapback]

Scooby was frightened, he had no idea what this girl was going to do to him and so he snapped with fear. It was probably a split second decision for him and he knew he HAD to protect himself. He didn't leave a mark on her so i would take that as he was "warning" her to stay away.He didn't intentionally want to harm her, that wasn't his motive.  Perfectly normal doggie behaviour IMO although of course unacceptable to us humans. You told children to not stroke him, you haven't got eyes in the back of your head  

 Don't beat yourself up over this. You are being a responsible owner by  seeing a behaviourist and working through this problem. Not all dogs in this world are as lucky as Scooby to have an owner willing to do this. For many dog it would be the dogs home or the vets

i agree with jo,some children have absolutely no fear of dogs and think they are just like teddies.i think all parents should teach kids that although most dogs look cute,some may not be happy to be petted and therefore they should ask the dogs owner if it's ok.
i also think that some of the posts on here have been very unsupportive towards scoobysmum,i have been very shocked at the negative responses when i'm sure all she wanted was a little reasurence(sp)we are all dog lovers here and we can all make mistakes,it's when we make mistakes that we need people to listen and understand not critisise(sp sorry to much wine last night methinks),i'm sure she is upset enough already.has no one on here ever made a mistake before and wanted to share it with friends?

[snapback]157794[/snapback]

I agree some have been a bit harsh. Being the owner of a dog that has bitten I completely understand how upsetting this. Unfortunatley we don't all have perfect dogs but i think once you have seen a behaviourist you will feel much better  

[scooby's mum]

Thanks so much to everyone who has given ADVICE and SUPPORT and not critisism  

I've not replied sooner cause to be honest I've been that annoyed I would probably have said something I may have regretted - some people just have a "holier than thou" attitude and like to preach I'm afraid  

It's quite annoying and upsetting that you post on wanting some sound advice and you get critisised and told where you are going wrong.

I have been made to feel that I have not taken this seriously enough but I know my dog and I am pretty certain he was "warning her off" and I certainly don't go with the theory that all dogs displaying this kind of behavour will eventually bite.  

However, being the intelligent person I am    I will keep Scooby away from the playground until I have seen someone  

Thanks again everyone

xxx

[sarahb2206]

Hi - being the Mum of 2 "energetic" boys AND a childminder, what you have posted is very familiar territory.  
When Bramble has had enough, or is taken by complete surprise, she will growl and nip - like all dogs.  
I take her to school twice a day, and always am fearful of the odd child who will creep up behind......
I also know what parents are like - many would understand why it happened and just shrug it off - the child learning a valuable lesson.  Other parents would make so much of an issue out of it "your dog bit my child and therefore is dangerous...."
You are taking action to avoid the situation re-ocurring.  That is the action of a very responsible person.

I totally empathise with you here - if you need any more help and support - I know there are many here too glad to help.........

[jools]

Thanks so much to everyone who has given ADVICE and SUPPORT and not critisism 

I've not replied sooner cause to be honest I've been that annoyed I would probably have said something I may have regretted - some people just have a "holier than thou" attitude and like to preach I'm afraid 

It's quite annoying and upsetting that you post on wanting some sound advice and you get critisised and told where you are going wrong.

I have been made to feel that I have not taken this seriously enough but I know my dog and I am pretty certain he was "warning her off" and I certainly don't go with the theory that all dogs displaying this kind of behavour will eventually bite. 

However, being the intelligent person I am    I will keep Scooby away from the playground until I have seen someone 

Thanks again everyone

xxx

[snapback]158110[/snapback]

Glad you're back Joanne. Something similar happened to me on this forum and I was so angry I left the forum for months....and here are the same people behaving in the same awful way!

There is a fantastic support network on this forum....it's just important to listen to the advice from people you respect, and discount the others.

Keep us posted about Scooby

[Cob-Web]

How "harsh" would the replies from COL members have been had someone posted a thread along the lines of this a few weeks ago?:

There is a parent at my childs school who sometimes brings her dog on the school run. The dog appears frightened of the children, and hides under her legs, and he growls at the children when they go near him. The owner says the dog won't bite, because he growls at her son at home but has never bitten anyone.



Upsetting though it is to be accused of preaching, when my intention was to share my own "mistakes" and solutions (sadly, not all of us are as skilled in expressing ourselves in writing) - it has clarified one thing for me; I now understand entirely why many reputable breeders refuse to home puppies with young families.....

[suki1964]

Thanks so much to everyone who has given ADVICE and SUPPORT and not critisism 

I've not replied sooner cause to be honest I've been that annoyed I would probably have said something I may have regretted - some people just have a "holier than thou" attitude and like to preach I'm afraid 

It's quite annoying and upsetting that you post on wanting some sound advice and you get critisised and told where you are going wrong.

I have been made to feel that I have not taken this seriously enough but I know my dog and I am pretty certain he was "warning her off" and I certainly don't go with the theory that all dogs displaying this kind of behavour will eventually bite. 

However, being the intelligent person I am    I will keep Scooby away from the playground until I have seen someone 

Thanks again everyone

xxx

[snapback]158110[/snapback]

Glad you're back Joanne. Something similar happened to me on this forum and I was so angry I left the forum for months....and here are the same people behaving in the same awful way!

There is a fantastic support network on this forum....it's just important to listen to the advice from people you respect, and discount the others.

Keep us posted about Scooby

[snapback]158117[/snapback]

May I just say that support and advice doesnt always come in the way you want.

If you post in an open forum that expect to have differing views offered, if you only want to hear what you want to hear then maybe you shouldnt post in public.

[Jane S]

Any more personal sniping and this thread will be locked. As Caroline says, anyone who asks for advice on a public forum is not necessarily going to like all the replies they get. There is plenty of useful advice in this thread but, as on any worthwhile discussion forum, there will be opinions expressed that maybe others do not share and some opinions are perhaps expressed more bluntly than others. The alternative would be the kind of "fluffy" forum where nobody says anything but platitudes for fear of offending someone else! If you disagree with advice given & find it harsh, then fair enough, say so but it's perfectly possible to do this politely without being personally insulting (such as referring to other members as "these awful people"- if that isn't harsh, I don't know what is )

Jane

[Cob-Web]

An olive branch - links to articles that I researched and bookmarked after I was told that Molo was aggressive at the vets a few weeks ago:

Fearful Dogs - Canine Concepts Article

Fear Aggression - BC Rescue

Fears and Fear Aggression -  Debra F. Horwitz DVM Diplomate ACVB

Fear Aggression - Matthew Margolis His Aggression Types page is good, too

I don't agree everything these articles say; but thought they might be useful and interesting.....

[jools]

I can't see the direct quote "these awful people", but I can see that I said the same people behaving in the same awful way......which is very different to suggesting people are awful!

I've been thinking about it, and Caroline's right, this is a public forum....but do we all think of it like that? I don't .....I think of it as a very private forum filled with loads of folk I would class as friends.....and that's probably where I'm going wrong.

The written word is a very very difficult thing to interpret. What reads perfectly fine to to us, might upset others.....without us intending to!

[Jane S]

Apologies Jools, you are correct to say you didn't call members "awful people" but accusing people of "behaving in an awful way" is not exactly polite either   Other members were able to say they disagreed with some advice & the manner it was given without getting personal and that was the point I was trying to make but obviously failing ... sigh!

Jane

[lyn]

oh dear,i am sorry if my post caused offence to anyone.i was just trying to point out that just about every reply was in the negative and that maybe there needed to be a little understanding and support for a friend.like other members i am not very good with getting my thoughts from my brain to pc clearly.maybe this post touched a nerve in me.many years ago we took in a 16 wk puppy who was going to be pts because he was aggressive,after lots of training he seemed to make great progress and he lived with us for over a year,we encountered an occaisional warning growl but nothing i didn't think i could handle.one day i was laying in front of the fire and the dog was sleeping next to me,my eldest son bent over the dog to tap me on the shoulder and the dog jumped up and attacked,it lasted about 3 seconds and my sons face was ripped apart he was lucky he wasn't blinded.he still carries the scars today.i was horrified and blamed myself and it was the comfort and support of my friends that got me through that terrible time.i knew it was my fault and i truly didn't need to hear people telling me that i just needed a little understanding thats all and thats what i was trying to say in my post.
iwlass i feel that you have taken the brunt of this issue and i apologise for that. my post was not aimed at anyone in particular.