Advice And Understanding Needed

[Babylonian]

I agree with the posts - I don't think your boy killed the cat - I've owned loads of cats and I've never heard of a dog killing one before - cats are very quick on their feet - I suspect the cat died of something and your dog found it.

Put it out of your mind now!  

[tiggerbabe]

However, the chase and potential kill instinct can be very strong in dogs especially once they have succeeded and experience the fun 

When Sophie killed a young thrush when I took her out in woodland a couple of months ago - I was disgusted with her as she had turned from this placid dog that just ambles along on her walks to this wagging tailed demon that was intent on catching this flailing bird!  ::

It really took me aback and I had to change our route for a good while as everytime we passed the area she was off sniffing about like mad as she clearly remembered the "fun" she had there before!   .  She is still fascinated by birds, but I am just careful when I am out now!

The cat could also have been chased by a fox and died under there when it was too scared to come out?

[KellyP]

Hello,

sorry to hear about your distressing time. I have to say though that I do agree with the others that I doubt your boy has killed the kitten.
We've an abundance of fledglings in the garden at the moment. We know when they are on the floor or somewhere 'cocker viewing height' because Millie will let out this awful wailing, howly bark .. which translated roughly translated means "help help there's something moving in the garden but I'm too scared to touch it so come and get it before it might eat me"

She makes this noise for many garden 'intruders'  the list of offenders so far being cats, hedgehogs, an urban fox, and now fledglings   she's also made it on the beach at seagulls

to be honest, I don't actually know what she'd do if she caught a fledgling, so far they've not been in places she could get to (an empty plant pot was one!). I know for a fact she definitely would not hurt a cat or fox, she wails and chases them but if they turned around and stood up to her (like my mum's cat) she's a total wuss; I think it's thanks to one to many smacks across the nose from LuLu (mum's cat)!! As for fledglings hmm, not sure and I doubt I'd give her the benefit of the doubt!  ::

In conclusion, once you've made it throughmy waffle!!  I truly doubt your boy killed the kitten, he was probably so happy to show it to you because he thought you'd be pleased that he had found it, and if he has no scratches or marks then I seriously doubt he killed it. Also, just because you can't find somewhere he could get under the house doesn't mean he didn't .. Millie can squeeze through the tiniest of gaps when she wants too!!  Jenni can't though      

Please don't punsih him, and yourself over this

Love
Kel
x

[Sue H]

Whether or not your little Boy killed the kitten is something you have to look at objectively - if my dogs come across something injured or defenceless (like a baby bird for example) they will 'rush' at it and then observe it for ages - it is only their nature that makes them feel as though they can then actually mouth it or do anything else ...

It is indisputably the 'law of the wild' that an animal will see any other creature who is less advantaged than itself (or injured) as potential prey ... left to themselves, our doggies would eventually chase down and kill our wabbits for example - it is only the fear of our displeasure that means they tolerate them as sometime house companions ... we wouldn't leave them alone together though would we ....

Barley was a complete saint with my boys' Russian hamsters - they would crawl all over her and she would dogfully put up with it and smile ...  I saw her quickly deal with an injured mouse once though - it was just staggering drunkenly down the path towards us and seemed oblivious of everything else - before I could even register what I was seeing, she had taken it by the neck, gave it a few shakes and then left it dead .... she didn't play with it or even seem to take any pleasure out of what she did - and I guess if I had had the guts to do it, I would also have put it out of its (obvious) misery ...

There must be someone close by who is letting their cat breed indiscrimnately - either that or the mother cat has been taken out of the picture somehow, otherwise the kit would not have been struggling arouhd so small and defenceless ...

Sometimes, the local tomcats, scenting another male, will simply take them out (presumably to protect their territory)...

Give your doggy the benefit of the doubt and certainly don't think the worst for doing something which so deeply ingrained  even if he did (they do like to show things that they have just found!!) ....

[benton]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.
I do feel better about this now, having other people's input and being able to look objectively leads me to believe he may not be as guilty as first thought, having said that, I do still believe he had a part in the death of the cat, but probably it was a pounce that went badly wrong, as I am sure he would pounce on a cat given the opportunity. More than likely he was very surprised it did not run so he could give chase, as that is what he has done around cats in the past.
Maybe it was sick or injured internally, will never know, but I have forgiven him, and love him as much as ever, but in future will be very very careful around cats.
thanks again.

[suki1964]

Am glad to hear you have forgiven him

Alfie thought cats were great fun to chase, till he met the big old tom down the road. Thats one cat that wont be chased and he gave Alfie a swipe across the nose for his troubles Alfie now has a bit more respect for cats, he still goes ballisitic when he sees one, but makes sure he doesnt actually catch up with one

[Cob-Web]

I agree with the posts - I don't think your boy killed the cat - I've owned loads of cats and I've never heard of a dog killing one before - cats are very quick on their feet - I suspect the cat died of something and your dog found it.

Put it out of your mind now! 

[snapback]137028[/snapback]

I have found this thread very difficult to read - a former dog of mine did catch two pefectly healthy cats over a period of a week - she badly broke the jaw of one, and sadly killed the other   There were medical reasons why it happened, and I don't blame her for a minute - but my guilt is horrific; both for any suffering she may have caused to the animal, and the distress caused to the cats owners  ::

Just to say that I know how it feel Benton - and while you may never forget it; please don't let it effect the relationship you have with your dog  

[benton]

OMG IWLass, how awful for you! At least I had the consolation of knowing it was a stray, and I didn't have to go and tell somebody that my dog had probably killed their beloved pet.
I read a thread on another forum where somebody owned a dog and cat who had grown up together and were both loved and spoilt rotten and lived inside, until one day the cat was resting outside and the dog just grabbed at it for no known reason and killed it.
The owner now hates the dog and he lives tied up outside, she doesn't speak to him anymore, just throws him food and yells at him when he barks. Several weks have passed and she hasn't come to terms with it yet, hasn't rehomed or PTS the dog, I don't know what will happen. Very sad.
If it had been my cat I really hate to think how I would handle it.

Perhaps we all like to think that our dog would never do anything like that, but do we really know they wouldn't?

[amanda]

OMG IWLass, how awful for you! At least I had the consolation of knowing it was a stray, and I didn't have to go and tell somebody that my dog had probably killed their beloved pet.
I read a thread on another forum where somebody owned a dog and cat who had grown up together and were both loved and spoilt rotten and lived inside, until one day the cat was resting outside and the dog just grabbed at it for no known reason and killed it.
The owner now hates the dog and he lives tied up outside, she doesn't speak to him anymore, just throws him food and yells at him when he barks. Several weks have passed and she hasn't come to terms with it yet, hasn't rehomed or PTS the dog, I don't know what will happen. Very sad.

[snapback]137243[/snapback]

That's terrible. The poor dog shouldn't be made to suffer for something that comes naturally to them. Has anybody on the other forum advised her to stop treating the dog in this way? I'd be very concerned. Are they in this country?

[benton]

I don't think so Amanda, I just came across it by accident when I was surfing around and don't think I can find it again. I recall that someone was trying to take the dog and rehome it for her, but I got the impression she didn't want to part with him.

[fi61]

Have just read about your awful experience.  I have to agree with others, I would be VERY surprised if your dog had killed the cat.  My last cocker dog caught a kitten and numerous birds but never left a mark on them, just held them in his soft mouth and eventually let them go after being told numerous times.  I actually do not understand you even mentioning putting him to sleep even though you say you do not want to do it, seems very harsh.  Give the little chap lots of hugs so he feels secure again, he needs your love and attention and I think you need his

Good luck.

Fiona, Milly and Lucy

[lyn]

hi
  i just thought i would write and reassure you about your dog.it is highly unlikely he killed the cat the cat was most likely poisoned if the dog had killed it it would have had obvious wounds on its body and you mentioned you thought that maybe the cat was a stray and living under your house so if it was poisoned it would have had time to get back to your place a day or two before it actually died this might explain why your dog was sniffing a few days earlier.

[Fixxxer]

OMG IWLass, how awful for you! At least I had the consolation of knowing it was a stray, and I didn't have to go and tell somebody that my dog had probably killed their beloved pet.
I read a thread on another forum where somebody owned a dog and cat who had grown up together and were both loved and spoilt rotten and lived inside, until one day the cat was resting outside and the dog just grabbed at it for no known reason and killed it.
The owner now hates the dog and he lives tied up outside, she doesn't speak to him anymore, just throws him food and yells at him when he barks. Several weks have passed and she hasn't come to terms with it yet, hasn't rehomed or PTS the dog, I don't know what will happen. Very sad.

[snapback]137243[/snapback]

This annoys me greatly, a big problem some owners face is that they seem to think that dogs have the same kind of reasoning that humans do. Dogs are hunters pure and simple it is in there genes. While I am not disputing that with the correct training a dog can be encouraged to controll it's "killer instinct" it is still there.

Now don't get me wrong had the above happened to me I would not have been happy but what good is being achieved by the punishment described? A dog that kills anything does not pre meditate the murder weeks in advance they just do it because it's genetically programmed into them.

Would people be so appauled if the creature the dog killed wasn't a nice fluffy cat and was a rat/mouse or vole? No they wouldn't because HUMANS see a difference between the two. Unless the dog is taught this from a young age prey is prey. My millie even has a go and cows and horses when we take her out and she is tiny, a right scrappy doo!