Author Topic: Hamish Bit Me  (Read 14065 times)

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Offline shonajoy

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Hamish Bit Me
« on: January 30, 2006, 01:05:01 PM »
He's ben being more vocal recently, and growling a lot, especially if he's told to do something h doesn't want to do.

 Anyway, I was on the couch with Indie beside me - not lying on me or anything, when out of the blue Hamish came up and bit Indie's ear. I put up my hand and said *No* very firmly, and quick as a flash he bit me, really hard. I don't have boken skin, just tooth marks, but it was blooming siore.

For the past few weeks he's been doing really well with clicker training, and we use it all the time. He never gets anything for nothing, h sits, waits etc becutifully, but this was totally out of the blue. :(
Shona, Indie(5) and Hamish (4)

Offline Elisa

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 01:11:44 PM »
No advice Im afraid, but hope you work it out.   :(
Elisa, Bailey & Harvey  xxx

jools

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2006, 01:22:12 PM »
How very dare he! Do you think the bite was a result of getting in the middle of the two of them....or did he aim for you? Also, what was he like right after? Did he put the ears back and look submissive?

We follow NILIF with Millie....I'm guessing you do the same from what I read in your post. The only time Millie's behaviour starts to get bad is when I've (yes, always me....too soft you see) relaxed the rules and started allowing her on sofa / bed and stuff - any chance it could be this with Ham?


Offline shonajoy

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2006, 01:29:46 PM »
Quote
How very dare he! Do you think the bite was a result of getting in the middle of the two of them....or did he aim for you? Also, what was he like right after? Did he put the ears back and look submissive?

We follow NILIF with Millie....I'm guessing you do the same from what I read in your post. The only time Millie's behaviour starts to get bad is when I've (yes, always me....too soft you see) relaxed the rules and started allowing her on sofa / bed and stuff - any chance it could be this with Ham?
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He was really angry right aftr, not submissive at all. He's been so good recently, as we have ben doing all the proper training and stuff, so it was out of the blu. He specifically aimed for me though, as I was along the couch from Indie.
Shona, Indie(5) and Hamish (4)

Offline PennyB

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2006, 01:39:39 PM »
Sofa's am afraid can be real flashpoints for all sorts of things. When Cassie my present foster arrived I wouldn't let any of them on the sofa as all the aggro was to do with my presence and competing for my affection, so none of them got it!
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Offline miche

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2006, 04:33:52 PM »
Shona, how old is Hamish?, I think he's older than Mikey but Mikey is acting very much the same at the moment.  I have been unable to walk him as I have a bad leg and it's down to hubby who doesn't walk him as much and he's been left a little longer than usual lately so I thought maybe that's not helping.

He attacked Herbie and I caught him going for my eldest son a week ago, really nasty - didn't bite but he would of if my son hadn't have backed off, needless to say we are all practicing NILIF and won't let up on it this time.

These cockers can really push their luck can't they ;)
Love Michele, Mikey and Herbiexx


Offline DennyK

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2006, 04:48:20 PM »
I know that in "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey she talks about (generally) never shouting at your puppy/dog etc, but she does say that if your dog really oversteps the line, he knows it, you know it (i.e. there's no doubt that it was aggression and aimed at you) then you need to "discipline" him.

She recommends that you do what his mother would have done: something loud, shocking, fast (i.e. you react immediately and it's also a fast action/noise to maximise the shock factor).  If it's done correctly, your dog should look shocked, maybe even cower a bit, and you then also do what his mother would do after "correcting" him by snarling - pet him to show that you've finished the lesson and it's forgotten (provided he doesn't do it again).

I discussed this with a friend with a beautifully well-trained, 10 stone Rhodesian Ridgeback, and she had used it a few times in the early days and was a big fan of it.

I've had to do this once with Paddy and it was miraculous.  Instead of play biting (which is usually pretty gentle and no aggression) he really did bite at me and snarl menacingly because he'd managed to use a small footstool as a stepping stone to reach the armchair and I told him "off" while moving to lift him if he didn't shift voluntarily - and he didn't intend to shift.

I did exactly what Gwen Bailey recommends - moved so fast I shocked myself, never mind Paddy.  I lunged at him (not with hands, just whole body) with my face/head further forward (but out of biting range) and I made a real snarling sound - loud, sudden - at him - and a snarling, contorted face.  He looked really shocked, submissive tail wagging and everything.  Jumped down, I petted him and told him he was a good boy, all gently toned voice, and I've never had any kind of repeat - and he doesn't try to get on furniture (and we never let him on anything either).  

He wasn't cowed or submissive after my immediate petting, just got on with life, as did I.  It genuinely did do "exactly what it says on the tin".  Interestingly, because it was a conscious (albeit bloody fast!) decision on my part, not a reaction out of shock or anger, there really was no "boiling blood" hangover.  I could move on immediately, not just "going through the motions".

I guess this is easy to say, as he's a puppy and small, and generally a gentle little lad.  Hamish may be more of a handful but if you're willing to give it a go...

One footnote: Gwen Bailey subscribes to dominance behaviours.  From the things I've read, I'm sceptical.  I think (and offer this very humbly, as he's my first dog and it's mainly from reading up) that it is more to do with dog personality and home environment (eg a pushy, confident dog who is allowed to get away with murder will spiral to more difficult behaviours, not necessarily because he's acting out pack theory).  What made sense about her "discipline" proposal though was that you're seeking to emulate what his mother would do to discipline him and then forgive him immediatley if the right behaviour is forthcoming.

Let us know how you get on.

Offline miche

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2006, 06:20:04 PM »
Quote
One footnote: Gwen Bailey subscribes to dominance behaviours.  From the things I've read, I'm sceptical.  I think (and offer this very humbly, as he's my first dog and it's mainly from reading up) that it is more to do with dog personality and home environment (eg a pushy, confident dog who is allowed to get away with murder will spiral to more difficult behaviours, not necessarily because he's acting out pack theory).  What made sense about her "discipline" proposal though was that you're seeking to emulate what his mother would do to discipline him and then forgive him immediatley if the right behaviour is forthcoming.


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Denny K I find this really interesting - I have never read this book but I have always done this with my dogs and have never had a problem with them.  Mikey's character is one of selfishness and pushiness - he really is overconfident, he's not a nasty dog, he's lovely - but if I don't handle him correctly I can see we will have a problem in the future.

I will keep this trick up my sleeve for when I really need it :)
Love Michele, Mikey and Herbiexx


Offline Jane S

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2006, 06:31:59 PM »
Remember that Gwen Bailey's advice is aimed at puppy owners - the shock tactic she recommends may not be appropriate when you are talking about an adult or adolescent dog and could actually cause an escalation in the aggression (a dog reacting aggressively could become even more aggressive when faced with a perceived threat like a human lunging towards them). I think when an adult dog has bitten a human, then it's always best to seek professional advice from an experienced trainer/behaviourist as it can be dangerous to give advice over the internet as what may be appropriate for one dog may not be appropriate for another (as there are so many causes of aggression).

Jane
Jane

Penel

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2006, 06:41:47 PM »
Quote
best to seek professional advice from an experienced trainer/behaviourist as it can be dangerous to give advice over the internet as what may be appropriate for one dog may not be appropriate for another (as there are so many causes of aggression).

Jane
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totally agree - especially with his health issues too - is he ok at the moment Shona ?

χ-мιѕn

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2006, 07:00:52 PM »
Heya im new to this forum and im only 13 but i have trouble with Ben my 6 month cocker spaniel he bits alot he gets realy agressive somtimes but with you it must be difernt so hope it works out for you :D

Offline Magic Star

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2006, 07:12:44 PM »
:( Shone, so sorry to hear this, I can't offer any advise really I hope things improve and it was a one off.

Take care xx


jools

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2006, 08:48:48 PM »
Just out of interest, from the people who've posted saying they've had issues with aggression, how many have solid coloured dogs?

I do believe that solids are more difficult to deal with and more prone to.....quick tempers. My husband calls Millie The Firey Redhead - and that just about sums her up.

I'm not suggesting that EVERY solid is prone to this....or that EVERY parti-colour is not....but I'm convinced there's a link between colour and the tendency for this sort of behaviour.

Just as a P.S, Shona  - Ham is 1, right? From my own experience, Millie was at her very worst at that age. Someone on here likened it to dealing with a stroppy teenager. She's a lot better now - but is still prone to wee episodes.

Good luck!

Offline Jan/Billy

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2006, 09:02:39 PM »
Shona really sorry to hear this  :(  you must be feeling quite upset. I'm sure there will be some doggy explanation somewhere that makes perfect sense to Hamish but perhaps not to us  :rolleyes:

If you are worried I'd say definately go to a behaviourist. The one I had with Billy was great and Billy has come on in leaps since  :)  The sofa is a definate No go area for Billy now though as sometimes he did get a bit snappy whilst he was on there. Now he knows its definately an out of bounds area he doesn't bother. It has resulted in less stress for us all - including Billy  :)

Hope you can work it out, keep us informed  ;)



Offline bluegirl

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Hamish Bit Me
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2006, 09:22:24 PM »
I wonder if his steriod treatment is the root of the aggression problem?

Although his treatment is necessary I have read that in some very rare cases the glucocorticoids may unmask aggressive or unpredicable behaviours in dogs.



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