Training duration/frequency

[DennyK]

Paddy is 15 weeks old on Wednesday, and is a sweet, attentive little lad.  However, I'm going incredibly badly with his training.

How long should I be training him for, and how many times a day/evening?

Part of the problem is that he is with a pet sitter for much of the day, while I'm out at work.  This wasn't what was planned for a while before we got him, (plenty of work from home was the plan) but the work situation changed and I don't have a choice - other than to rehome him which isn't going to happen.

She has two working cockers, one a 6month old puppy.  To stop Paddy over-bonding with her, she isn't training him and leaves him with the puppy quite a bit, while she supervises their play but doesn't interact with them all the time.  Thus he's quite tired by the evenings and I try to do two sessions of about five minutes each as a minimum, and if he's lively, I'll stretch that to ten minutes.  At the weekends, I'm doing four sessions a day, of between five and ten mins each.  Depends what we're doing- if it's in the garden, we can spend longer as he stays interested longer and I intersperse it with us loping round together (albeit it's a small garden!).  If it's out on a walk, he stays close and recall is pretty good (mainly because he's still too unsure to go loping off too far, or not respond).

I'm simply not seeing much progress, to be honest - other than lead walking, which he's naturally good at, so I can't even take credit for that! 

Paddy responds while there's food in front of his snout, but even in the house with no other distractions, any other actions are shaky and unreliable.  I've been to a four week (ie. one session of one hour, for four Tuesdays) training class with APDT trainers and they were great, so was Paddy, so I know it's me.  Is it that I'm out too much during the day, so that he's not alert enough in the evenings so what we do during the week can't stick and then the weekends are too far apart for more intensive attention to work?

I'm not looking for agility type obedience/control, but some progress on Paddy "getting" the "down" command would be good!  He went through a "shaping" phase (trainer said to give the command but give him some time to "shape" the idea in his head and respond, without constantly repeating it).  Started to work then he seemed to lose interest in this method.  I've reread Gwen Bailey's chapters on this so often that it looks like my old O Level copy of Pride & Prejudice - well thumbed and well annotated in the margins!  Added to this - OH doesn't participate in any training and thinks most of it is a crock - "he's a dog, just let him be". 

Sorry - feeling a bit sad and daunted by it all, not least thinking that he'll shortly be hitting hormones and teenage stage so I've got a limited window of opportunity with him....

D

[Rachel B]

Barney had absolutely no idea what "down" meant so our trainer at our class showed us a good trick.  Sit on the floor with your knees arched and put a treat in your hand.  Make the dog crawl under your legs and when he is crouching down to get under your legs stroke his back and say "down, good boy down".  evetually he will understand what "down" means.  Barney now understands down and he responds to us pointing to the floor.  We don't spend muchspecific time training barney but we encorporate it with normal stuff - for example, when he comes in having been to the toilet in teh garden we make him sit, lie down, stay and treat him. 

Another good one is to make him wait for his food.  We put down his food and say "leave it" and he will sit and look at his bowl until he is told to "eat it".  You can start teaching this by holding a treat in your hand and making him wait by syaing "leave it".  if he tries to get it from you before you have told him to take your hand and the treat away - so he sees that he doesn't get rewarded until he has doen as he has been told.

Don't feel sad about it.  Paddy is only 15 weeks old.  Barney at that stage was still weeing all over the floor and generally mis-behaving.  Stick with 1 command until it is thoroughly learned to limit his confusion.

Best of luck.  Please don't feel that you are failing.  Cockers are clever dogs and Paddy will learn soon.  He is only a baby

[PennyB]

I was always taught little and often, and a lot of patience. At 15 weeks his concentration span is still quite short so I wouldn't worry about it (I never did 'intensive' work with mine anyway) as you'll get there in the end. I never rushed the training with mine as I didn't want it to be a chore mainly as it eventually sort of 'clicks' when they begin listening to you. I never go by what other cockers could or couldn't do at whatever age as everyone's circumstances and abilities are different.

What I did a lot of was to train while out on walks.

[miche]

Mikey learnt to sit in his first week of being with us, I used a clicker to teach down with excellent results and sit and stay and wait were learnt on an evening when there's been nothing on the TV.  He's 9 months now and that's all I've taught him, the other stuff like house rules he's learnt just living with us and through play. Take it slowly and have fun with it.

Herbie is 7 months and cannot do down, I haven't given up but either he cannot grasp it yet or he doesn't want to do it

[princess]

hi there just wondered if this will help. elliotts trainer told me when i teach him down position to get a well liked treat tell him to sit hold treat on tip of his noise move the treat down by his throat so hed follow it and eventually my hand would be nearly at floor level with cocker baby in down position.this worked for us you could try it 

[princess]

soz forgot to say as you are doing this you say down then as you know praises galore.

[DennyK]

thanks for the reassurance!

Paddy does it all perfectly, text book, Gwen Bailey could photograph him for her book: provided there's a treat in my hand.  He'll sit, he'll "down", he'll stay, he'll recall.  I put his food down and make him sit-stay till I release with "OK then".  to test him - he waited over a minute last night.

But minus the food incentive, he looks at me as if to say "you loon, no chance.  Where's the cheese, honeybunny??  No treat: no dice."

I guess, like Penny says, it may just "click" one day in his head (hence the trainer talking about "shaping" the idea) but I feel like I must be doing something wrong....

Any other suggestions or experiences gratefully received!

Denise

[miche]

I am certainly no expert on dog training but am pleased with how my two young cockers are doing and this is what suggest.  Firstly up from cheese to really really interesting treats, something that is really doggylicious , but don't treat him everytime, keep him guessing as to whether he gets one or not.  You could also start introducing a toy instead of treats at appropriate exercises.

Have you tried a clicker, I used this with Mikey and the click became a treat in itself.  I started off doing a click then treat and then always click, sometimes treat.

For his age though, I think he's doing superbly - certainly better than my Herbie and he's 7 months so don't worry and don't let him pick up on your feelings about training atm.  I am sure you do this anyway but keep it short and end on a good note with praise and play.

[Jessie]

Hi
Paddy is stll very young at 15 weeks and it sound like he is doing well!  Training is a constant thing (especially with cockers!).  My dogs are aged 1 and 3 and I still treat them when I train them - after all, I would not work hard for no pay packet and just a pat on the head!  I also always use the clicker when teaching them something new.  The clicker is the signal that they are getting the job right - the treat is still the food.  When they have the trick perfectly, I do not use the clicker, but still use the treat. 

I am not saying they always get food - if I just call them from the garden then they do not get treated.  However, during actual training sessions (which they really enjoy) I do treat and on important occassions - like when off lead and return when called - I always give treats and praise.

Also, dogs need reminding.  Especially as they are growing up.  I was just congratulating myself last week for getting Mica  to one year old and being so good off lead.  The very next day she ran off 3 times!! So, back to basics.  Recall, click and lots of treats and praise.  One week later and she is almost back to her good self.

If you are really concerned, contact your trainers.  They will nearly always be happy to give you advice over the phone. 

Finally,  I have my dogs go out with a dog walker twice a week when I am out.  I always tell him exactly what they have been up to, and how I am training them - he then gets no surprises!  I feel sure from your postings that you probably do this with your dog sitter too, but if not, it might be worth doing so. 

And, if you want her to spend half hour a day giving Paddy a bit of basic training - tell her that is what you want and how you do it..... I do not think half hour training will cause Paddy to bond with her enough to cause any problems.  My dog walker always takes the bag of chicken (I leave for Mica when he walks her  off lead )and he does recall with her - she clearly loves him, but does not pine for him when he is not here!

Good luck - sounds like you are doing fine to me!