Testicles

[Curtisio]

This is my first post to this forum, so please excuse me if I do anything against etiquette.

We bought home our Black Cocker 6 weeks ago, he's doing great. Doing very well at his training classes.

He is now 5 Months old. We were told by his breeder at the time we picked him up, that his testicles had not dropped  (he was only 14 weeks at the time) and the vet would try to get us to have him neutered. They still have not dropped, again, his breeder told us that his cousins testicles did not drop until 2yrs. So we are not worried at the moment. My question is...

His 5mth check up at the vet is due soon, How much pressure should we expect from the vet? and how long should we resist neutering if his testicles do not drop before it becomes a health issue?

[cbabe]

Vets are very enthusiastic for chopping them off (excuse the phrase).

Their main concern will be that an undecended testicle can become cancerous. You need to weigh up the importance of not neutering him to the risk of health.

If you do not intend breeding from him then the importance of keeping  him whole will decreace.

There is no firm 'date' but if your breeder has reccomended a time span from her experiances with his relative then this may be your best guide.

I'm sure someone else on the forum will be along soon with their experiances to help you weigh up the pros and cons for this decision

[Shirley]

Hi Curtisio

Have either of his testicles dropped?  Our vet will removed an undescended one and leave the normal one where it should be - to avoid coat change - but recommends leaving this procedure until the dog is at least 18 months old.  You should probably decide what you want to do before you go to the vets as they can be pretty persuasive       If you've made up you're mind and have all your reasons sorted out, it's much easier to resist the pressure.

Hope you're pup is settling in well - what's his name?

[Michele]

but recommends leaving this procedure until the dog is at least 18 months old.

Have to agree with Shirley's comment here.
Even though your pup's testicles may never descend, he will still go through hormonal development, and I strongly believe that it is important to let a dogs character and personality develop before undergoing any surgery. Of course, it is sensible to monitor his wellbeing, and if anything gives you cause for concern, you should get it checked out straight away.

Welcome to COL by the way, hope you enjoy the site    

[Curtisio]

Thanks for the advice, We had pretty much decided not to have him castrated because we have heard of character changes etc. So I think we will wait for another year yet...

Our dogs name is Kyro by the way

Thanks a lot

Curtisio

[JoHarborne]

Stick to your guns on this one!  We're continually asked by family, friends, other owners, WHEN we're going to get Woody castrated and quite simply - we're not!!!  He's a beautiful dog, a great pedigree - why mess about?!  And I know that our cats' personalities changed once they were neutered and we don't want Woody to change at all.  After all - he's been bred for temperament among other things so it would seem a bit pointless.

As long as we're all responsible when we meet bitches on heat or if we have a bitch, that we take steps to ensure they are safe during season, I do feel we should be allowed to make an informed choice.  

[PennyB]

All our pets have always been neutered, male and female, cats and dogs, and they've never had a personality change that was anything but for the better!

And with between 10,000 and 12,000 healthy dogs put to sleep each year in pounds in Britain alone I can see why vets do discuss neutering with owners the way they do.  

[Jane S]

And with between 10,000 and 12,000 healthy dogs put to sleep each year in pounds in Britain alone I can see why vets do discuss neutering with owners the way they do.

I have no problem with vets "discussing" neutering but in too many cases, they are not treating their clients as sensible adults capable of making their own decisions & pressure is being brought on new puppy buyers to neuter almost immediately without giving them the chance to make up their own minds & without pointing out that there may be side effects. Vets have told people who have bought puppies from us that neutering does not cause coat changes in Cockers (false) & that failure to neuter a male dog will mean he will definitely suffer from cancer at a later date (also false). I am not anti-neutering but I am against owners being pressurised into making decisions by being giving misleading information & without being made aware of both the pros & cons of taking that decision

Jane

[Cob-Web]

I strongly believe that it is important to let a dogs character and personality develop before undergoing any surgery.

At what age are dogs hormonally mature? We have not finally decided whether to have Molo 'done' but would want to wait until he has finished maturing if we did have him castrated.

Our vet said not before nine months; but from some of the posts on the Leg Cocking thread, I'm guessing it can be longer? How can you tell?

[Curtisio]

Again thanks for all of the views. Me and my wife were not actually thinking of getting Kyro 'Done', because of personality changes etc. We believe with careful ownership, does it NEED doing? plus to add to an earlier thread, Kyro has a good pedigree and fantastic temperment so we are thinking 'Why fix what ain't broken.' I guess we just have to fend of pressure from the snip happy vet, and keep a close eye on Kyro around the girls....

[TOPAZ BILLY]

And with between 10,000 and 12,000 healthy dogs put to sleep each year in pounds in Britain alone I can see why vets do discuss neutering with owners the way they do.

I have no problem with vets "discussing" neutering but in too many cases, they are not treating their clients as sensible adults capable of making their own decisions & pressure is being brought on new puppy buyers to neuter almost immediately without giving them the chance to make up their own minds & without pointing out that there may be side effects. Vets have told people who have bought puppies from us that neutering does not cause coat changes in Cockers (false) & that failure to neuter a male dog will mean he will definitely suffer from cancer at a later date (also false). I am not anti-neutering but I am against owners being pressurised into making decisions by being giving misleading information & without being made aware of both the pros & cons of taking that decision

Jane

Jane,

Totally agree, We had Billy neutered when he was 18 months old after almost constant pestering by the vet.  Abby has been to the vets 3 times twice for her injections and once as company when Billy had his booster, The vet has asked us 3 times if she is to be spayed (No)   He then went on to inform us of the health risks and the problems with unwanted pregnancy! pointing to Billy whom he had just examined and he did his op??   When I commented that we are having a go at showing Abby his track changed again, asking me if I intended to breed her and telling me that they have all the facilities to do the necessary tests?   £££££££

I dare say next time I go he will ask again.


Michelle

[Shirley]

Vets have told people who have bought puppies from us that neutering does not cause coat changes in Cockers (false)

    My vet told me this too   .  I didn't bother arguing the point     Thankfully he's not one of the snip happy vets and has never metioned neutering for Morgan.  Only discussed it as a possibility for Cooper sometime in the future if things don't right themselves    

[padfoot]

I agree that vet's should explain all the pro's and con's. But I also agree with them suggesting neutering considering that so many dogs and cats are needlessly killed each year. I don't think it's just seen in terms of pound signs...for instance my vet's have a low-cost neutering scheme, it only costs £50 to neuter a giant breed bitch there...they won't make much profit on that! The reason they offer this scheme is because they are dedicated to reducing unwanted pregnancies.

There is no doubt about it, neutering has changed Toby's coat. But his personality? No. He is as loving as ever, and significantly calmer. I do agree with Penny in that respect, all our family dogs and cats have been neutered and it has never altered their personality. However, with larger breeds I think there is a slightly higher risk of bitches spayed too early having urinary incontince, compared to the risk for smaller breeds.

I suppose the main risk is owner's being irresponsible. If owners know the risks of keeping their pets entire and are willing to prevent unplanned pregnancies and so on, fair enough. Personally I don't feel confident enough to take the risk with my own dogs.

 

[Colin]

I have Jimmy and Misty registered with two different vets and spoke to both of them prior to having Jimmy neutered. Both denied all knowledge of Cockers coats changing  as a result and also the fact that some castrated males start  to attract the sexual advances of other entire males. The latter was my main concern for Jimmy as it would have made his life a misery, I've seen it happen with a couple of males in my park and they are now restricted to mostly onlead walks on the street as this unwanted attention caused them to get into fights.  The fact my vets wanted to keep schtum about these things just makes me doubt the truth about anything they say now. One quoted me £200 for the op, the other gave a figure of £100 even though they are within about 2 miles of each other..... which goes to show there are some vets out there that see this as a good moneyspinner.

Since the op, I've noticed no change in personality in Jimmy and fortunately he hasn't suffered any feminisation to attract males. The only downside, other than coat change, is that he is now obsessed with food and I'm having to re-train him to stop trying to scavenge from anyone eating food in the park. Previously I once inadvertantly tied him to park railings next to some KFC chicken bones, whereas then he didn't bat an eyelid as he knew he wasn't to pick at stray food, now he wouldn't give it a second thought and would wolf them down in seconds.  He's far more likely to not respond to recall over an illicit meal now than he ever was over in-season bitches.

I fully understand the pro-neutering stance taken by those involved in rescue as it must be heartbreaking seeing all theses unwanted dogs put down. But at the same time I do wish vets and some pro-neuterers wouldn't attempt to hide the negative aspects in their aim to reduce the amount of unwanted litters. Tell the whole truth and let the individual decide, I say.

[padfoot]

I agree Colin. I also agree that *some* vet's see it as a moneyspinner which is sad...with ALL treatments we as the customers should be given all the information. I do think pet-owners have a hard time with vet's in terms of making informed choices...some vet's would only ever recommend annual vaccination, their own prescription foods (which they make commission on) and so on.

Can't say I've noticed much difference with food with Toby as he's always been a glutton   But I am finding it harder to keep him at the right weight now...he gains weight more easily, and I've had to give him supplements as his coat became very fluffy.