Testicles

[Michele]

I strongly believe that it is important to let a dogs character and personality develop before undergoing any surgery.

At what age are dogs hormonally mature? We have not finally decided whether to have Molo 'done' but would want to wait until he has finished maturing if we did have him castrated.

Our vet said not before nine months; but from some of the posts on the Leg Cocking thread, I'm guessing it can be longer? How can you tell?

I would say as a rough 'guestimate' 18 months to 2 years old for a cocker, allowing for some being faster or slower to mature than others.

[Chrissy]

I have a very good relationship with my vets and we often share snippets of information with each other.  Obviously I ask them health related issues and they ask me stud and whelping (normal whelping not C-Section) questions.

I’ve never had a vet who has even mentioned neutering to me, however I guess that’s because they know I’m a breeder.  I’m not so sure they treat their average pet owning clients in the same manner!

One topic of conversation was about retained testicles.  According to my vet (and many others I’ve spoken to) it was considered good practice to neuter dogs that had retained testicles due to the risk of cancer at a later stage.  Current research (according to my vet) is that they have not found an increased risk of cancer in males who have a retained testicle and they are inclined to leave things alone unless the owners want to have their dog neutered anyway.  

The other thing to keep in mind is that neutered dogs have an increased risk of prostate cancer.  Given the prostate is internal it’s hard to know if your dog has this condition until it’s quite advanced.  Apparently more dogs die of this cancer than testicular cancer as any changes in the testicles can be spotted more readily and treated at an early stage.

Chris
 

[Shirley]

One topic of conversation was about retained testicles.  According to my vet (and many others I’ve spoken to) it was considered good practice to neuter dogs that had retained testicles due to the risk of cancer at a later stage.  Current research (according to my vet) is that they have not found an increased risk of cancer in males who have a retained testicle and they are inclined to leave things alone unless the owners want to have their dog neutered anyway.  

The other thing to keep in mind is that neutered dogs have an increased risk of prostate cancer.  Given the prostate is internal it’s hard to know if your dog has this condition until it’s quite advanced.  Apparently more dogs die of this cancer than testicular cancer as any changes in the testicles can be spotted more readily and treated at an early stage.

Chris

That's really interesting Chrissy.  Do you know if and of these reseach findings are published on the web - I'd be keen to find out more.  If you're just swapping the risk of one cancer for the risk of another that sheds a whole new light on it.

[Chrissy]

That's really interesting Chrissy. Do you know if and of these reseach findings are published on the web - I'd be keen to find out more. If you're just swapping the risk of one cancer for the risk of another that sheds a whole new light on it.

Hi

I’m not sure that it’s a case of swapping one risk of cancer for another!  I think what my vet was saying was that it was considered practical for health reasons (the avoidance of cancer) to remove retained testicles.  New research (will ask him where the research is published, at a guess I should think it will be the Vet Record) seems to indicate that a retained testicle poses no greater risk of cancer for the dog (due to being retained) than it would do if the testicle were descended.  As I said before, vets will still remove the testicle if the owner wants the dog neutered anyway but this way an owner now has a choice.  Many owners don’t want their dogs neutered but under the old guidance they had no choice if the dog had a retained testicle!

As for the prostate cancer well I’ve spoken to my vet about this and also found a web site that explains this in great length.  My vet agrees (from his practical experience) with the views that are explained in this article.  Have a look, it makes interesting reading!
Issues Regarding Castration In Dogs

Chris  

[*Jay*]

Well, that article made very interesting reading. Didn't realise that neutering young could make the dog taller  (Maybe should have tried that on Dallas   ) Wonder if thats what happened in Vegas' case

[Jane S]

Current research (according to my vet) is that they have not found an increased risk of cancer in males who have a retained testicle and they are inclined to leave things alone unless the owners want to have their dog neutered anyway.  

 

Steve Dean (a respected breeder/vet) mentioned this research in one of his columns in Dog World some time ago - I think the orginal findings were published in the Veterinary Record as Chris mentioned but I will try & find the article as I cut it out for future reference & filed it away somewhere ... not sure where at the moment

Jane

[Shirley]

The way I see it, for a dog to develop cancer in a retained testicle is just as serious as developing prostate cancer as it is also internal and it wouldn't be easy to spot - okay, the article states that most testicular tumours are benign but they are still tumours that I assume could grow to quite a size (possible causing damage to other organs) before you'd spot it.  Surely the best course of action is to remove the retained one at an appropriate time, minimising the risk that your dog will develop testicular without you spotting it.  It also means that you avoid the increased risk of prostate cancer caused by neutering.  I'm a complete novice in this subject and I have no idea if any of that made sense - it was probably complete drivel!!    

This is all so confusing .  I, like everyone else, want my dogs to live as long as I do but having accepted that this isn't going to happen I want to make the correct measures to keep them healthy for as long as possible.  I know that left alone it's just as likely that Cooper would live a long and happy life without having a problem with his 'missing part'    but if he did develop cancer in it I would never forgive myself    It's so hard to know what to do for the best  

[Chrissy]

Hi Shirley

Not sure what the answer is!  It’s still my understanding that cancer of the testes is very rare compared with prostate cancer and I guess the risk of any dog having a tumour (benign or otherwise) in a testicle (retained or otherwise) is very slim.  I think most male dogs (from what the vet was saying) would be dead from old age before any testicular tumour claimed their lives.

I can see your point about a tumour growing inside a dog and pressing on something it shouldn’t being a problem (guess I have no answer for that!).  Mind you, the operation to remove a retained testicle is often far from straightforward and can be quite complex I think the whole new approach to leaving testicles where they are (if retained) is part of a process of weighing up the risk factor of an anaesthetic, and the complexity of the surgery. I don’t think that vets know how complex the operation will be until they actually have the dog open on the table.  The retained testicle can be anywhere from near the kidneys (approx. where the ovaries would be situated in a bitch) to into the groin area.  The latter location is the quickest and safest location for a simple operation.  Just my thoughts.  

Chrissy
 

[taniac]

Well that article was really interesting reading and has made me feel much better about leaving both my boys intact.  

Now all I have to hope for is that they don't start being aggressive to one another... Although Neo's a bit of a soft wimp so at this stage it doesn't look like it's going to happen    

[Laura]

It is such a hard decision isn't it - and the advice is so conflicting depending on who you talk to and what you read   The article was very interesting and it is nice to know what I need to keep an eye out for in the future.  Brogan was neutered at exactly 12 months old - I had originally wanted to keep him intact.  He however had such a high sex-drive that he was a risk to himself - his need to roam was making it impossibly difficult keep him within the home/garden - fortunately we only ever had one successful escape and he hadn't gone out our road.  With Brogan I was more bothered about him becoming a road traffic accident victim - if his urges were that strong at 12 months I would hate to see what he would have been like at say 3 years old with a female in season in the neighbourhood.  Since being neutered his roaming needs have stopped completely and he can now pass a blade of grass without the need to mark it  

Bailey has a retained testicle so still have to make the decision with him   I have also been warned that leaving the undescended testicle inside could result in it twisting at some point on its stalk    Closer to the time - I will have to weigh up every pro and con to hopefully make my individual decision.  Not looking forward to that one - although am so far still thinking of neutering. I do however appreciate knowing all the risks before I reach a final decision.

[Becky]

Danny had a retained testicle and we had him neutered at nine months.  It has effected his coat but his personality is wonderful, and always has been.  It is true though that it's a complicated procedure at times.  Danny was under for a long time, according to the vet.  They really struggled to find the teste as it was deep inside him, and he had about ten stitches from his groin up to his belly button.  No regrets though, as he's turned out fine,  but the day of the op was a nightmare.

[Laura]

Am glad Danny recovered well Becky  

My vet has already warned me that Bailey's neutering could be extensive   - on all examinations now the 2nd testicle hasn't been felt at all - she reckons the chances of it coming down now are very slim.  As it is also not a routine neutering she has advised we submit an insurance claim when the time comes.  I am hoping to be able to leave the decision for a few more months yet - but that will also depend on how well the boys get on now that Bailey is maturing   So far so good!  Writing this now - I think I have already made my mind up though to go ahead with the op - still hoping it will stop its hide n seek game though  Doubt it but will remain optimistic nonetheless!

If neutering makes their personality more wonderful (it did with Brogan- turned  a sex fiend into a lovely family pet) then Bailey will be a true Teddy Bear - he is already Mr Softie, can't imagine him even more laid back    

[Becky]

Good luck with whatever you decide.  

[Elisa]

Have just been reading the posts and had a completely different response from my vet.  When we took Bailey for his second vaccination at 10 weeks old, we asked about neutering, thinking this was the responsible thing to do.  Our vet said that he didnt believe in neutering dogs just for the sake of neutering.  He knew that it affected a cocker's coat, and we should only really get him neutered if his behaviour was particularly bad.  Must admit I was quite "thrown" by this at the time, but in our case it's worked out well.  We have a lovely, well behaved, entire dog with a lovely coat.  Im not sure what he would say about the unwanted pregnancy arguement though.

[Chrissy]

Hello Elisa

It's good to hear of a vet taking a different view!

Sadly as you've already probably guessed many vets use the vaccination visit as a prime opportunity to try and book the puppy in for his/her neutering operation!

All I can say is well done to your vet for not jumping on the automatic neutering bandwagon  

Chrissy