Waiting Lists

[Jane S]

I have never experienced any problems with would-be buyers resenting being questioned & vetted - most see it as a good sign that they have contacted a caring, reputable breeder! It seems breeders cannot win sometimes - if they act responsibly & check out their would-be buyers thoroughly, then they are accused of sending people into the arms of the puppy farmers & pet shops (who ask no questions at all of course!). No sensible puppy buyer should resent a breeder taking the time & trouble to check that they can offer a suitable home for one of their puppies & if I ever did come across an enquiry from someone who didn't like being vetted, then that enquiry would get no further with me. I don't personally use questionnaires but can well understand why other breeders do (they are almost universal in countries like the US) as it helps them to get the relevant information they need (taking into account the sheer volume of enquiries many breeders get, particularly those with websites).

Jane

[lizzy]

Yes I agree, it would interesting to find out!  

[Gilly]

Sorry Lizzy...I deleted my post as I didn't want to cause upset.

But I'll put it back on anyway  

I said it would be interesting to see the statistics on rehomes, as I feel that the majority of them may come from full-time workers who have not had crucial time with the puppy and therefore puppies grow into dogs that are destructiv, struggle with toilet training etc  

Gilly

[kookie]

Sorry Rachel I COMPLETELY disagree strongly with you there  
I would be wondering WHY? I wasn't being asked such questions to be honest with you and respectable breeders only want to find the right homes for their puppies   Anyone who takes breeders questions as an insult and goes to a puppy farm on that basis must be out of their mind.
 

I expected to be grilled too, and would have been suspicious of the breeders motives if I hadn't.

[suki1964]

Colin     Posted on Sep 20 2004, 01:51 PM
     

However as a prospective owner I did find it really difficult phoning round the breeders, Jimmy's breeder was particularly difficult to pin down. She had me screaming with frustration , I really couldn't figure out how to convince her to let me have one of her pups. Maybe I'd said something really stupid to her, maybe she was just suspicious of me.... who knows. I spent hours ringing round breeders before getting Jimmy, most were pleasant and helpful a few were downright rude and offensive. I don't think I'm stupid, but remember it got to the point when I just wished there was a pet shop around the corner with a Cocker Spaniel waiting for me.

I remember thinking the same when I was looking this time. But having been down the puppy farm line (not knowing any better) with my last pup I was prepared to hold out till I got there.

And trying to find a breeder was difficult. It wasnt untill I I chatted for a long time (two hours) with a woman from cocker rescue (I guess an informal interview) that she finally passed on a few names and numbers.

I know my breeder only goes with personal recomendations. She loves her dogs and thier pups and honestly cried when she handed me Alfie. She never advertises and she never needs to. In fact the last litters were all "booked" long before and we only got Alfie as someone changed their mind and decided to wait till next years litter.

I think its a two way street with the interviewing. I want to know that the breeder has only the welfare of their pups at heart. I want to know that the breeder knows what they are doing and that the breeder will be there for me if any further advice or help is required. But I only know all this now because of past mistakes. I can really understand why new dog owners are put off and go to a shop. Hopefully with more education and easier access to that information, more and more people will take the time to go through the process rather then taking the easy (for them) route

 

[Tidge]

Thanks for all that, we seem to have opened a can of spagetti here.

I always send a questionnaire to potential owners, and to be honest, if it is likely to put a potential owner off, then I would rather they didn't have one of my pups, because filling out a few questions is not as bad as when you have a puppy chewing up your furniture and pooing everywhere.  My questionnaire are intending to sort out the serious thinkers from the passers by.

I use the answers in the questionnaire to my advantage, for example, one question is 'Have you every house trained a dog before?' this then gives me an indication that I will need to cover this subject thoroughly and offer support to the new owner that I might not have to give to an experienced dog owner.

I totally agree with Gilly, I have had calls from people asking if I have pups available, when I answer no but you can complete a questionnaire and can be consider for joining my waiting list for my litter due shortly, they say they are not interested in joining a waiting list and want a puppy straight away, I always try to tactfully point out the error of this way of thinking, but also heave a sigh of relief that one of my precious pups won't be going to them, because guaranteed that pup will end up with the RSPCA.

The people on my waiting list contact me regularly for updates and provide information about themselves, to reassure me that they are willing to provide good homes for my pups, so by the time the pups are born, we've built up quite a relationship.  But I do understand that too many questions can be off putting and we should be concentrating or 'outing' puppy farming and promote good breeding.

[*Jay*]

I am totally in favour of vetting - the more stringent the better I think

As a full time worker, I want to prove that I can provide a suitable home for a puppy for the next 13-odd years. I am more than happy to explain what my routine is - I'd be very worried if the breeder knew I worked full time and just gave me the puppy without any further questioning  I am happy to answer any questions whatsoever about my lifestyle, my dogs, whatever they feel they need to know. After all, put yourself in their shoes - they have reared these pups for the past 8 weeks and they need to make as sure as they possibly can that their 'babies' are going to a suitable home where they will be loved and cherished.  When I have discussed my working situation with breeders, I always volunteer a reference from my boss - either in writing and/or on the phone.  He can then confirm that I have the time off for settling the pup in like I said I did, that I can take the dog into work when the vaccination program is complete like I said I can, and that if the dog doesn't come into work with me for whatever reason, he can confirm that I can pop home every 60-90 mins for toilet breaks and quick play sessions like I say I can.  No-one has deemed that necessary( I must have an honest looking face ) but i always leave them my works phone number regardless  I would also be willing to provide written statements from people who know me and my dogs such as their training instructors for example.

I think its a small price to pay for a puppy from a reputable breeder.  

[Shirley]

I never met Morgan's breeder until I went to pick up my pup.  I had been in telephone contact with him for about a month before the pups were born and I wasn't told for definate whether I could have a pup or not until they were around 3 weeks old.  It's not cheap to get off this island and If I'd had to make two trips down there within a few weeks of each other it would cost me about £400 in travel     I asked a lot of questions though and pestered him constantly so he knew I was serious about it.  At the time I was, and had been, working as a supply teacher (days here and there) for 4 years with no sign of a full time job but by the October I was given a contract   .  Morgan was a 6 months old and adapted fine to me leaving him for 3 hours in the morning and 2 in the afternoon.  They get a good walk in the morning, a run round the croft - chasing a ball (did my back in, throwing the dash thing!!!    )  at lunchtime and then out for a longer walk when I finish work.

I didn't mind being asked loads of questions over the phone and by e-mail.  I wouldn't have had anyone to get a reference from though, as there are no breeders that I know of here and the vet didn't know me until I started going with Morgan so not sure I'd pass the test of a lot of breeders.  Luckily with Cooper we had a reference from Morgan's breeder so it was a bit easier to get him.

It must be a nightmare vetting people who want a pup but there has to be a degree of trust - at the end of the day, there's no way of checking whether the potential puppy owner is telling you 100% truth - suppose you have to be a very good judge of character!!

Out of interest - a question for breeders - how many of your puppy buyers stay in touch after they take the pup home???  

[Cob-Web]

Oops, I never meant to take the lid of this can of 'spaghetti'!

Please can any 'vetting' be done sensitively; home visits, questionnaires, telephone calls etc that some breeders use are very intimidating and rather off putting.

Just to reiterate, I was not advocating not vetting prospective homes, just consideration to the way it was done.

For instance Tidge, although 'Have you ever housetrained a dog before?' may sound totally innocuous to you, and does indeed help you support new owners effectively, to a prospective owner it is quite undermining:
'OMG, what if I say no, does that mean I'm not allowed a puppy, will she only let them go to experienced homes, it must be far more difficult than I think, how will I ever convince her that I am capable as I have no experience....' and before you know it the prospective owner, who may have done loads of research and reading and talking to other owners, has worked him/herself into a tizzy and gives up on your questionnaire completely.

Lizzy, I am afraid that if a breeder was sharp with me on the phone, it would suggest that they would not have the time for me once I was an owner of their pup, and be unable to support me if I need it......so they would be crossed off my list straight way. If they are too busy to talk to me, then how can they dedicate the time they need to a litter and new owners?

Gilly, no offence taken by me regarding your comments about full time workers, although having worked in rescue centre, my experiences lead me to suspect you might be surprised by the results.
The dogs in my area who are left to wander, who have behaviour problems or who never go to classes are not from working households but rather households where there are many people around all day, but no-one has the desire to dedicate their time to the dog.

I was discussing this thread with OH, and he asked a question I couldn't answer; "If breeders find it so difficult to give up their pups,  and expend so much energy seeking suitable homes, why do they breed at all?"

I couldn't give him an answer, can anyone who does breed help me out?


 

[lizzy]

Rachel,

Maybe the word sharp should have been replaced with brusque. I certainly would not be offended by a breeder who was just that. They may have  a dozen enquiries throughout the day, timewasters maybe, you cannot expect them to come on the phone all sweetness and light on every occasion.

If after speaking with a breeder and letting her know that my intentions were serious and she was still abrupt then I would consider looking elsewhere, but what you actually find is someone very helpful and warm, given the chance.

[Magic Star]

I was discussing this thread with OH, and he asked a question I couldn't answer; "If breeders find it so difficult to give up their pups,  and expend so much energy seeking suitable homes, why do they breed at all?"

I couldn't give him an answer, can anyone who does breed help me out?

I don't breed, and doubt I ever will, I couldn't let the pups go and i'm no way experienced enough to ever encounter such a massive commitment

But I would say, if there weren't breeders I wouldn't have my Indiepops and you wouldn't have your Molo  

[Gilly]

Have you asked your Breeder the same question?
By some of your posts and comments and after working in a rescue centre you sound slightly anti-breeder to me? which makes me wonder why you bought from a breeder in the first place?
You went to a breeder I presume because you wanted a good specimen of the breed, and someone who you knew had carried out relevant health tests, someone who cares about the breed and someone who is an advocate of the breed, someone who will give you aftersales advice.
I'm sorry I can't seem to get on the same level as your reasoning I'm afraid. I haven't come across anyone who had been remotely sharp or rude on the phone, that doesn't mean to say those people don't exist, but i really do think they are few and far between    Most breeders are caring loving owners with only the best interest of the breed at heart. I really am unsure of what your point really is to be perfectly honest    

[Tidge]

Hi again,

Why do we breed at all?

Good question, because we love our dogs so much and it would be selfish not to!!!!

My question regarding housetraining normally instigates conversation about the best methods/ways of house training, and without that question, there would always be the possibility of a pup going to an inexperienced home and an owner not knowing what to do next, whilst tripping over the next pile of pooh.

From the contact I've had so far, people are grateful for the opening of a question that they might not normally want to ask for the risk of sounding stupid, if I put the question in front of them, it makes it clear to them that I understand that some people need further advice.

It is unfortunate if a breeder has ever been sharp with you, but do consider that lack of sleep and the lack of energy that rearing a litter of pups leaves you with can make even the most docile of characters snappy.  I would normally consider this a good point, they must be so busy looking after their dogs that you are meerly interrupting time with their dogs:-)

At the end of the day, there are good owners and bad owners, good breeders and bad breeders and I will always ask as many questions as I feel necessary to make sure pups go to  a good home as well as being prepared to answer questions that potential new owners may ask.   Also to most reputable breeders, breeding is considered a hobby, not a full time job(although it always is) and often in addition to running a family and jobs as well.

[Hel]

Gilly, no offence taken by me regarding your comments about full time workers, although having worked in rescue centre, my experiences lead me to suspect you might be surprised by the results.
 

If you worked for a reputable rescue who has the dogs' best interests at heart, you will know that such rescues have a more stringent rehoming policy than many breeders.

I foster and rehome cockers, and believe me, I want to know everything about you and home check you before you would get a foster of mine.  

Having worked for a rescue, I can't understand why you would consider questions from good breeders too intrusive.

[Cob-Web]

Gilly

Not at all anti-breeder, in fact just the opposite, I wish all pups were bred responsibly and breeders all these promoted their services widely so everyone was better informed, and puppy farmers/ shops were put out of business. IMO, some breeders, and some experienced owners, give the impression of being in an exclusive and slightly elite club, to which only the select few are allowed access. This prevents the message getting through, as those who will get most value from it are excluded from the club.

I also have reservations, as I have said before, about breeders who criticise all other breeds/colours/lines in favour of their own to prospective owners.

When I worked in rescue, anyone who walked through the door was treated with respect, given time, information and support, and if necesary gently councelled into the best decison for their circumstances. No-one was turned away, or handed a piece of paper as soon as they walked through the door.
Every home was vetted and checked, and questions were asked but in a manner that was not seen to challenge the people concerned. One of the first things I was taught was that unless the people who visited to rehome an animal understood why they may not be suitable then they would find an animal somewhere else - and it too would end up under our roof at some point. The adoptive family were as much our responsibilty as the adopted pet.

I DO NOT have an issue with the fact that homes are vetted, just the way in which some breeders carry this out - IMO to acheive the goal of preventing puppies being bought from farms, some breeders will need to become more accessible to a wider audience.