How To Stop Guarding Behaviours?

[DennyK]

I've been trying to teach Paddy the "retrieve" and it started beautifully.  I threw something, said "Fetch", he bounded off after it, as soon as he'd got his teeth on it, I started enthusiastic praise, stayed sitting still, arms still and he brought it back to me, curled up in my lap on the floor and I stroked his body, avoiding his head, still praising.  Waited till he dropped it then repeated it.

So far, so Gwen Bailey.

After two or three days of doing it perfectly each time, with different toys, chews etc, he suddenly started coming half way back to me, then trotting over to the other sofa, lying down with the toy and chewing away.  If I continued praise etc, he might poddle over to me, without the toy.

I was wary of going near the toy, or him with the toy, as I don't want to be chasing him but... of course, I did it a couple of times, and now he scarpers with the toy if I so much as move.

So... spoke to the trainer (an APDT class) about it, and she said to play with the toy, waggling and dragging it, let him grab it while keeping hold of it myself, then put a treat next to his nose and when he lets go to take the treat, say "drop", feed the treat, and drop the toy immediately infront of him, so that he learns to drop on command AND learns that trusting me with the toy results in the toy staying put.  When we've done that for a few days, reintroduce "fetch" games and he'll come poddling back to me.  All made sense.

perfect.  Er... no.

As soon as Paddy scents or sees a treat, he simply won't play with the toy, so I don't get to tempt him, reward him, drop the toy in front of him.  He simply sits stock still, only movement being of eyes and head to follow where the treat/my hand with the treat in it, is stationed (other than the end of my arm, obviously!!

So:  classes have finished, new ones don't start till March.  What do I do about this retrieve business?  Paddy isn't aggressive or growly, I think he's just looking either for a game with me chasing or else just wants me to bog off and leave him to chew.

All and any suggestions gratefully received!

Thanks in advance.

Denise

[Annette]

Sorry, no suggestions come to mind immediately. Just want to say       , that made such funny reading.

[Penel]

Two toys - throw one, get him to fetch it - use the other to lure him back and drop the first - throw the second.... etc.

[clairep4]

Hmmm, sounds like Paddy's got a whole lot of tricks up his sleeves!

It sounds like he's obviously more interested in the treat than the toy, so maybe you need to use another toy instead? I've just started doing clicker training with Bella and in the book I have it says there are basically two ways of training something - to lure the behaviour (which would be if you showed him the treat and he dropped the toy to get the treat), or to capture the behaviour (which would be if you just kept an eye on him and just as he dropped the toy naturally, say your cue word for it and praise him) - I think that's right, anyway?

So here's my suggestion although I'm sure that clever boy of yours will see through it!

Get two toys, one which is high value to him and one that he can take or leave. Hide the high value one, then call Paddy to you and throw the other toy and ask him to fetch it. Hopefully he will trot off like a good little waggly boy and pick it up (praise him for this) and no doubt he'll go and lie down with it or want you to chase him. So at that point, get the exciting toy out and approach him but let him know you have this toy and make it look like it's really high value to you as well (eg lots of exciting noises and inspecting it closely and squeaking it or whatever). If at that point he drops the first toy then "capture" the behaviour by saying "drop" just as he's dropping it and then praise him and reward him by throwing the second toy for him. If he's still hanging onto the first toy then I guess you'll need to really get him interested in the one that you are holding, maybe look as if you're about to throw it for him, I'm hoping that he might at this point be sitting in front of you still holding the first toy but being more interested in you throwing the second one. You could then "lure" the behaviour by looking ready to throw the second toy but asking him to "drop", hopefully he will try dropping the first toy just to see if this gets you to do what he wants.

Not sure if that will work but it's worth a try.  I think maybe you need to incorporate the whole fetch and drop thing into an exciting game so he doesn't even realise he's being taught, if you see what I mean. Also remember it's a two-way thing, he thinks he's training you as well, if you think about how they'll do things like bringing you a toy with their best angelic look when they want a game, most of us probably give in and hey presto! Our dogs have taught us how to play with them on cue! You can really see this with Bella and the clicker training at the moment, eg if I'm doing onlead heelwork, she's fairly good but likes to walk in front of me, but she knows that she only gets a click and treat if she's by my side in the correct position. So we'll be out on a walk and she'll suddenly decide she wants a treat, will very deliberately slow down and walk right next to me and looks up at me waiting for me to click and treat - and I do, so she's taught me well!    

I'm sure you will get some other suggestions as well - I reckon just try them all! Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[clairep4]

Two toys - throw one, get him to fetch it - use the other to lure him back and drop the first - throw the second.... etc.

[snapback]182507[/snapback]

Very concisely put, Penel!  

Why say something in 2 words when you can say it in 200, that's my motto    

[suki1964]

Two toys (or in Alfies case two balls) works everytime.

With him he has no interest in treats but his tennis ball is his prized toy, its the one thing he doesnt get free reign with.

[DennyK]

THanks for the suggestions: I'll try them this morning and report on progress over the next few days.

Denise

[Penel]

Two toys - throw one, get him to fetch it - use the other to lure him back and drop the first - throw the second.... etc.

[snapback]182507[/snapback]

Very concisely put, Penel!  

Why say something in 2 words when you can say it in 200, that's my motto    

[snapback]182516[/snapback]

     I think we posted at the same time  

[DennyK]

Right: Paddy's outfoxed me again, and highlighted my limitations as an animal trainer.

Two toys, one his much-prized ball.  Threw the low value one, he legged it after the toy.  Picked it up, trotted off out of harm's (my) way, despite my praising and staying still.  

I waggle the ball, (while he's still got low value toy in mouth) and he's back like a shot to play with that.  Having dropped the first toy exactly where he'd been playing with it.  ("Oi, Paddy, it's not supposed to happen like that!").

Dilemma: if I throw the second toy, he's legging off with that one, so I am now toyless in Toy Town.  If I don't throw the second one, he bogs off cos I got him back on false pretences.    

Now what?

[Dannyt]

Sorry but                 I've been there... one day he will return others he won't

[sarahp]

Now what?

[snapback]184381[/snapback]

Not a clue - but you could trade him in for a gerbil ::          

Sorry - only joking, OBVIOUSLY, but couldn't resist that!!  No useful advice sorry - Daisy is completely useless at retrieve  

[Dannyt]

I've got a gerbil if you want to swap...    

[Dannyt]

Well  I dont actually but I'll buy one specially

[Wendy G]

Does he always take the toy back to the same place?
If so you can try getting  to that place before he does and praising him when he brings it back.Also try training him away from the places he usually takes his retrieves and in a narrow place say a hallway, or entry so that he has no-where to go to except to you.

[DennyK]

I spent half an hour last night on training and as part of that, I was trying Raisen's suggestions.  It worked first two or three times, then Paddy reverted to just sitting where he found the first toy I'd thrown, playing with it and only coming back to me (minus the first lower value toy) if/when I made fuss of second toy.  Tried varying voice, location, etc but to no avail.

As soon as the treats were involved, same thing: belts back to get treat but minus the toy.

Now what??

D