Where to begin with Paddy's "diagnosis"?.....

[DennyK]

I caught the vet at 6.30pm yesterday to discuss Paddy's test results from his gastroscopy and colonoscopy. 

His colitis doesn't have a bacterial or parasitic cause, and is consistent with an "irritable bowel syndrome" type of colitis.  I asked what the options are now - basically, as expected, diet management and control, but luckily, he thinks steroids would be inappropriate.

So: lots of inconsistencies and a few scary stories from the vet.

Food suggestions - he wants me to put Paddy onto the Royal Canin sensitivity dry food. 

This is a bit of a "to and fro" exchange from here on in.

I explained that (i) the vet's partner had first told me that dry food was less digestible than wet and that dry food was the most likely cause of Paddy's problem - a tendency to problems exacerbated by eating dry food he couldn't digest; and (ii) if this was the case, how was going back to a dry food (albeit a "sensitivity" version) going to help?  He said that it was equally as digestible as the wet canned Royal Canin sensitivity food I've been buying from him at £2 per can.  I asked if that was the case, why didn't he put Paddy on it from the start and save me the money?  No answer.

I also told him that Paddy just won't eat dry food willingly and I'm unhappy at the thought of making him miserable, unless it's truly the best/only realistic way to sort out his condition.

His follow up suggestion?  Feed Paddy on "Chappie" - lots of dogs with stomach problems thrive on it for some (unknown) reason.

I asked about Aloe Vera juice - didn't mind but had no positive experiences and no research to his knowledge.

I asked about Nzyme powder from NatureDiet - he said it was a waste of money - would only help dogs with impaired pancreas function and the pre- and pro-biotics would all be killed in stomach acid before getting to "populate" the gut.

I asked about (deep breath....) BARF and raw feeding: he went very slightly potty, said it wasn't possible to get the balance of nutrients right and he'd had several dogs in with campylobacter poisoning who were fed raw, one of which suffered a lifelong problem as a result.  When I reappeared from my bunker, I asked if he could be certain that (given the multiple possible sources of CB) it was raw meat that was the problem - he said "99% sure". 

I explained about the many experienced owners on here who feed BARF and have reported extraordinary improvements in their dogs and he didn't want to discuss it - no evidence, too hard to digest....

I have to say that, while I can't fault my vet's thoroughness, I've never felt any kind of empathy with him and I feel as if there are valid points in what he's said but also some glaring holes - and this fact makes me question the other points which seem valid.  I am so confused and just don't know what to do for my lovely little dog - who has put on 200g in a week and grown half an inch taller and an inch longer while on this tinned food after five weeks of nothing doing!

As a "holding pattern" to buy some thinking time, I've bought another dozen of the tinned sensitivity food.  Anyone got a magic wand to wave the problems away???

So what the hell do I do now? I feel frozen - scared to go forward in case I trigger another episode, but I can't stay where I am....

[kb]

I do not want to start another argument but some say that the reason why some dogs do so well on BARF is because you have eliminated the source of intolerance from their diet that was causing the problem - this could equally happen from trying a different food but you cannot tell for definite.

As everyone knows by now I am anti-barf but I don't know enough about nutrition to say it never works - and it obviously does for some. However you have evidence that what you are doing for your little fella is working right now and that syas a lot. You know different things work for different dogs - I still think you should keep him where he is at for the moment - until he is better or it is no longer working - I guess its really expensive feeding him with this way, but it may only be a short time. Changing his diet right now - regardless of what to- is going to set him back a little. Think how you would feel if you changed him and it made things worse (and think how smug the vet would be if he got to say I told you so).

You are not ruling BARF out forever - just at the moment. Listen to Paddy - if his body is showing you it is the right thing to do, then do it for him. Forget about everyone's advice (well maybe not the vets altogether) and go with what Paddy needs right now.

There is good reports of both diets - the only deciding factor can be Paddy's health - and maybe time to get over this flare up is what he needs. Then you will be thinking more clearly and confidently about what you want to do.

Hope I am not preaching - just trying to help.

Edited to add:
sometimes when try hard to find the right answer we never do - sometimes when we take a step back the right answer finds us!

[Penel]

My advice would be the same as it was last week Denise - go see a homeopathic vet.  I think you need more than one vet's perspective on this.

[Cob-Web]

Having battled with colitis with a previous dog, I can fully sympathise with your plight - I was in tears many times not knowing what to do for the best with Sheba

I think you were brave to even mention BARF to the vet; most vets would go loopy - its not yet "mainstream" enough to be widely accepted 

We went down the Chappie route with Sheba - when she was stable, she could tolerate the dry kibble, but if she ate too much, or got hold of something she shouldn't, she deteriorated and had to fast for at least 24 hours before gradually being reintroduced to the tinned meat for a few weeks to allow the inflammation to subside 

We never really cured her - just lurched from one flare up to another; I'm sorry I can't be more positive really, as I know some dogs to thrive once the colitis is under control

I hope you find something that suits you all...and now you know the cause is not parasitic - maybe you could consider alternative treatements like homeopathy (added at the same time as Penel  !)?

[MaxG]

Oh poor little Pads - interestingly, my friend has a golden with colitis & her vet suggested Chappie too as it's apparently quite basic & plain - he has that for one meal & JWB kibble for another - ??!!

I also had a collie cross when I was a teenager who was prone to bouts of colitis & she was also fed vet recommended Chappie for a while - however, I think it's been overtaken by now by much better brands which specialise in dietary problems, surely? For example, the sensitivity stuff you're talking about?

I'd definately see a different vet & canvas some opinion & use Paddy as a guide - if he's doing well & likes what he's on at the moment, then maybe adding some homeopathic supplements etc will help to stabilise him? Worth a try!

Give him a squidge from me, bless him!! 

[Petra]

Oh Denise, I really really feel for you....    My gut feeling would be to stick with the tins for the short term, until you have seen a different vet for a second opinion.....
I would seek a homeopathic vet as suggested by Penel and Rachel, and do loads and loads of research into Barf and colitis to see if you think there are positive benefits for Paddy to change to Barf...

Sending you and Paddy a big hug, and hope you find a way forward soon!! to you, just to cheer you up...

[silkstocking]

I'm so sorry that poor Paddy is still no better. I agree with Penel and Iwlass, seeing a homopathic vet sounds like a good plan of action.

Although your vet went potty about BARF I know if you'd ask mine he wouldnt have Vets like us have different opinions about it!  Withouit wanting to set that cat amongst the pedgions...(I have no desire to carry on defending BARF to the hill it works for me END OF STORY  )........I wouldnt rule it out completley to be honest, have a chat with a homopatheic vet and see what they say, and as Petra suggests do some research into the benifits of BARF on colitis. I'm not saying BARF is the only way before anyone lynches me, nor am I being smug, but I do think its a possibility worth considering  , poor Paddy has been through so much with his bott anything is worth considering!!

Hope you are feeling better soon Paddy pooch 

 

[Magic Star]

Denise, i've no suggestions or ideas for you,(don't want to get involved in any debates )  its your call really, although I would maybe think about a second opinion as Penel has suggested  

Thinking of Paddy and hoping he gets settled soon xx

Edited to add my old cairn x used to have colitis and we found Chappie helped

[silkstocking]

I'm with Emma, no need for a debate  ( given the last deabte around here!!) we can just make suggestions for you to mull over  Good Luck Denise, lots of Cocker kisses to paddy from my two hoolies xx

[Cob-Web]

One of the things that Chappie has in common with the "Prescription Diets" is a very low level of protein compared with other brands 

Most of the diets for "sensitive" tums still contain most common allergens - egg, rice, grain, dairy etc; so if Paddy is doing OK on the RC Sensitive, then it might be worth trying him on Chappy - its a lot easier to get, and a lot lighter on the pocket 

[michelle123]

Hi Denise I have been reading your posts & I really feel for you.  Firstly we all send our love at this difficult time 

Secondly I agree with the majority here, stick with what he is on at the moment & introduce Chappie with the RC - but seek a 2nd opinion whilst he is OK. 

I have got to say that I couldnt be doing with an unsympathetic vet, I would seriously consider changing if at all possible. 

What is it with Chappie ?  It always had the reputation of being the cheapest of the cheap but loads "recommend" it 

Good Luck hope all goes well

[Vilya]

I too have a Paddy who has had recurrent bouts of colitis.  My vet told me to feed him on chicken and brown rice, which made him worse   I subsequently read somewhere on the internet that you should never feed chicken to a dog with colitis, so I switched to coley with brown rice, with just a little bran mixed in.  While he was pretty bad with the colitis, I also gave him probiotic yogurt at lunchtime with a spoonful of paediatric kaolin mixed in.  As well as all this, I started him with the wonderful Tree Barks Powder from Dorwest Herbs, which I first read about on COL. 

To cut a long story short, Paddy made a very quick recovery on this regime.  I now just add a small amount of tree barks powder to each meal and that seems to keep him stable.  But the slightest change in his diet will start slight colitis off again; the other day I dropped a strawberry on the floor and he gobbled it straight up before I could stop him.  Just that was enough to start it.  I can't recommend the tree barks powder highly enough; I have a friend with a labrador who has chronic colitis problems:  she has started her dog on it, with an immediate improvement.

[DennyK]

Thanks for all the support and suggestions everyone!

Plan of action:

1.  Am calling vet this morning to get referral to Penel's recommended homeopathic vet.

2.  Will keep Pads on the RC sensitivity for the next week or so (wouldn't you know it, I'd just had delivered ten cases of Forthglade when he started to show signs of the colitis kicking off   - I'd still highly recommend it as a food though - interestingly the tinned stuff from the vet uses "animal derivatives" whereas Forthglade is pure chicken meat, tripe and lamb meat) till seen said vet...

3.  Am going to have to do more research.  Vilya - really interested in what you said about chicken because someone else said that chicken had been a problem for them and their vet said it was because it was such a dense protein.  The sensitivity food he's on has only 9% protein, compared to 14% protein on the Forthglade.  Given what Rachel said about Chappie having lower protein content, this may well be a clue to Paddy's problem.

For now - he looks so well and is so much livelier.  It made me realise that I've hardly noticed the small step-by-step decline in his energy levels which occurs in the couple of weeks before the crisis hits...Suzie, owner of the newly arrived Humphrey, met us in Pets at Home a week before Paddy's latest crisis - not sure she'd recognise the bouncier little dog he is at the moment (although Pads is never going to be a "high energy" dog - definitely of the "why stand when you can sit? Why sit when you can lie?  Why keep eyes open when you can snore?" school of philosophy!! - bit like me, actually ).

I'd also be really grateful for your opinions as to whether you think I should reintroduce Slippery Elm and introduce Aloe Vera juice now before he sees the homeopathic vet?

[sarahp]

Hi, dont mean to hi-jack but just thougth I'd tell you about Dill as he sounds similar but of a milder form than your Paddy.

He too very often has an upset tummy and was being sick almost daily and had diawotsit every day.  He was also not putting on any weight - so I was abit concerned about him as you can imagine.  Anyway my vets dont think its colitis - tbh they dont know what it is but he does seem to be stabilising now - thank goodness. 

Anyway the reason for telling you all that  - he is on slippery elm every day, with a desert spoon of aloe vera juice and no chicken. It has made a very big difference to him, he is not perfect yet but he is putting on weight, has now managed to do pick-up-able poos and is only sick occassionaly.  He had a poo sample tested, urine tested and bloods taken - all came back clear - so the vets really dont have a clue what is wrong. 

If I were you I would go back to the slippery elm and try some aloe vera juice - if nothing else, if it doesnt help him it certainly wont harm him    My vet has also recommended Chappie and I may try it but there are other things I want to do first (altering his BARF diet but I'm not getting into another debate  )and if that doesnt work I'm off to the homeopathic vet too 

Dont know if that has helped at all 

Let us know how he gets on

[Penel]

Yes I would introduce one or the other - but not at the same time.  Original Chappie is basically fish and rice.... just a note re brown rice, it is much harder to digest than white rice because of the extra fibre.... it depends what you are trying to achieve by feeding the rice.
My setter can't tolerate rice - or any other form of grain at all.  She also cannot tolerate chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, white fish.....

I really hope Mark can help you and Paddy - in my experience, if anyone can - he can