Help - Toilet training

[Cathy]

I have two problems i need help wth.
Firstly, our new puppy, Jess has been with us for 3 days. I know thi sis not long bt i am having real diffilculty already with her going to the tolet. She has had no tolet training at all so i am starting from scratch.
I take her outside every morning after each sleep, and about 30 mins after food.  Acouple of times after each sleep she has had her wee.  Generally though what she is doing is going into the garden, siting in front of me and then running off playing, whilst i ignore her. Then the second she comes indoors she walks accross the news paper and wees on the carpet. If i leave her outside she crys and scratchs the door until shes let in and then does the exact same thing.

Last night she hadn't done a poo all day, and we left her in the garden for an hour to do her business, and put her down to sleep she cried for about 10 mins and all went quiet. We thought she would settle for the night. Two hours later she started crying, she was making such a loud scream noise i went down to her to find she had messed all over her toys and blankets in her crate, where shes been sleeping during the day. I put her outside and put all the bedding in the washing machine. She hadn't had a wee. So i left her outside for 30 mins then let her i and she walked straight ino the dining room and wee'd on the floor, i caught her picked her up and put her outside, went with her, and again she didn't go any further.

I have to be honest this is driving me mad - what am i doing wrong?
I have had two golden retriver dogs in the past both from puppies and didn't experience this. So i have had puppies before and they both took 4/5weeks to tolet train, by putting them out regulary and using newspaper. I just can't understand what i am doing wrong.

Its now 4.30 am and im going back to bed, but wondered if anyne can advise me what to do.                    

[shonajoy]

HI Alan,

first of all I sympathise - we have a 17 week old cocker boy who used to do exactly the same. If I put him in his crate at night, he's be up yipping madly and covered in poo 4 times out of 10, to begin with.

You sound like you are doing everything right, and to be honest it's just a long process. You need to be prepared for it to take a while - Indie is 17 weeks, and still has about 1 accident a day, though is managing to do the rest outside.
It takes a while till they get the idea, Indie really only got it at about 11 weeks, and things seemed to click a bit, as in some pee hitting the target. Make sure you have a clean set of everything, and I now give Indie his last feed at 6pm, so he does a poo before bed. When he does one before bed, we act as though he's just passed the crown jewels, and lavish attention on him.

I bought three sets of bedding, and now keep one in the car, one in his bed, and one clean - it saves time if there is an accident, though we don't have bedding ones any more. It's like having a newborn for the first wee while, but it does get better, just persevere.

Shona                    

[Colin]

Hi Alan

It is very frustrating but patience and gentle encouragment is the key. I'm not sure leaving her outside on her own is a very good idea, exclusion might make her think she's doing something wrong and confuse her. Making too big a thing of this will only make her worse by associating her toileting with your anger. The calm and gentle appraoch isn't easy when you are mad as hell at 4.30 in the morning but will pay off eventually. You could try rolling a ball for her outside, the excitement of this might make her do a wee. If she does do a wee, then give her really over the top praise. Don't bring her inside immediately after she's been to the toilet but play a bit longer as a reward. Some puppies see going to the toilet as the signal to be taken back indoors so hang on for dear life to prolong the fun of being outside. Hence the toileting once theydo get back inside again.

All dogs are different, Jimmy caught on to toilet training instantly whereas Misty was a bit of a nightmare. She wasn't fully toilet trained until 6 months. :roll: There is a thought that boys learn this quicker than bitches.
Things do get better, but puppy ownership can be a real struggle for a few weeks so you have my sympathy. :wink:                    

[Jane S]

I'm sure you will get there eventually Alan - 3 days is no time at all, it can take many weeks for a pup to get the message :wink: Colin is right that it's not really a good idea for you to leave your pup outside alone & hope she gets on with what she should be doing. You need to stay outside with her, repeating your key phrase (eg "hurry up", "be good") & then lots of praise when she obliges. Inevitably this will mean you hanging around outside in the cold & wet sometimes while your pup just messes about but this is part & parcel of owning a puppy & it won't last for ever if you are patient & persevere. Although you have trained dogs before, they are all different & it might help if you brush up on training techniques - a book like "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey is ideal for new & experienced owners alike.                    

[picklesmum]

One other little thing I'd add - with Pickle, after I'd cleaned up his accidents in the house, I'd always dab some vinegar on the spot where he'd done it, so he couldn't smell his scent on that spot. He was a nightmare for peeing on my mongolian rug :shock: but the vinegar discouraged him totally. I believe they like to go back to the same spot where they've peed before - apparently if you soak up some pee on a cloth and then dab it on the grass where you want them to 'go' the scent encourages them - maybe worth a try?
The things we have to do for our puppies...!!!
Emma and Pickle xx                    

[PennyB]

It can take up to 6 months before some pups have completely got it. It seemed to take Ruby ages but for Wilf it was very easy. Three days is no time at all as the pup is still getting used to their new environment as well and being quite young they don't have a great concentration span either.                    

[Loraine]

Poor you Alan.    Nothing much to add apart from I know how you feel.  When I was reading your post, it could have been written by me.  In fact if I remember rightly my first post was titled 'How much longer???'! Toilet training was the one thing that really, really frustrated me in the early days.  Three days can seem like a life time when you've cleaned up after your puppy for the umpteenth time and it's just not funny anymore.  :evil:

Would definitely say that you have to stay with your dog outside until she's 'performed'.  I remember one time frightening one of my neighbours half to death standing outside in my wellies, pyjamas, dressing gown, ski jacket, scarf and gloves at stupid o'clock.   :shock:  

Hang in there it will definitely get better!

Loraine                      

[Gilly]

I can only echo what all the others have said. Hang in there, it does get better  :wink: I like Loraine...stood outside in my red fleece dressing gown with an umbrella at Stupid O' Clock (I like that one Loraine   )
I always used the same phrase and kept repeating it, and repeating it, and repeating it, I think you get the idea  :wink:   Eventually it just seemed to click and now she will go on command, which is really handy when it's bucketing with rain  :roll:
Don't despair it will all fall into place given time  

Gilly                    

[Cathy]

Thanks for you replies, She went for a poo outside and a wee this morning !!!  Praised her and she ran inside and wee'd again inside.

It was hard telling her NO as it was quite funny and id just praised her, so diddn't want to confuse her, maybe I got her to excited by praising her,... I know its only 3 days and all pups are different, I just wanted to make sure I was heading in the right direction.  I have no problem waiting with her outside, I was just trying diiferent things. I will try playing more with her in the garden, and get her excited... before she does it...

I don't mind her toileting inside as she so young and I expect it. I just find it frustrating that shes runs straight inside and does it inside it made me wonder what on earth I was doing wrong.

She has such a wonderful manner and is so loving. She does tend to cry ever so much.. i understand when she is alone. (sometimes i walk out of the room and she make sa racket...)  Is it normal for her to cry and whimper when in the same room, and sometimes when sitting on my lap. She tends to stop Crying when i hold her up high to my chest, or close to my cheek.. This is fine but it gets a little uncomfortable laying down with her all the time.. When i leave her in her cage on short occasions, i have to leave the house, as her crying is so upseting. so far i have left her 3/4 times for 10 mins, 20 mins, 30 mins, and at nightthe most shes been left is 2 hours. I have been a little concerned about distrubing the neighbours for long periods of time.

Tonight my ..PLAN... is to put her down about 10.00 and put her cage in the kitchen with newspaper on the floor,....

Should the cage door be closed?  Should I see if shes poos before she goes to bed?

I was thinking if she hasn't been would it be better to leave the door open so she can go on the floor and not dirty her sleeping area.  

She has been in the dining room until now and my dining room is next to a neighbours room, but my kitchen is not and is more distance from our bedroom, so we won't lay awake hearing her and struggling not to go and bring her to bed.
I had thought about bring her crate into the bedroom and moving it away a bit at a time, but as she crys when in the crate when we are in the room, i don't think that will help.

IS this the right track ?                    

[PennyB]

She has such a wonderful manner and is so loving. She does tend to cry ever so much.. i understand when she is alone. (sometimes i walk out of the room and she make sa racket...)  Is it normal for her to cry and whimper when in the same room, and sometimes when sitting on my lap. She tends to stop Crying when i hold her up high to my chest, or close to my cheek..

I think that's what's called trying to wrap you round her little finger

I'd keep on leaving her on a number of occasions and just ignore her as you leave and don't make a fuss when you come back (hard I know but they can turn coming and going into a big thing if you let them).                    

[andrea]

Bleu is 10 weeks old now and we leave her in the kitchen at night. We have left the crate open from day one, but i don't know what others do. This seems to work well for us. I have been using puppy pads by the back door. I put her on the mat every hour or if I see her sniffing round. I then say 'wee-wee'  :oops: If she walks away I call her back and repeat the command. This works well 9 times out of 10. Although she is only doing this for me and not my partner! For about a week now she has done her business on the puppy pad when I go down in the morning. It's still early days. Hope this has helped.                    

[Mike]

At such an early age Alan, your pup has got very little bladder control so you're probably just going through the motions at the moment and establishing a routine that she will come to learn, which will be important when she gains more control of her bladder - the improvements may seem quite gradual at this early stage, but apart from that, you seem to be quite clued up about all this so I reckon you'll get results soon enough - and like everyone else says, stay with her outside until she does do what you expect of her. That means she's not allowed back in - even if it's raining, snowing, you name it, so have a coat handy near the door

I think the main rules I adopted when toilet training mine were take them outside 30 mins after drinking, eating, exercise, waking up... everything you've already said  :wink:

If you know she's eaten earlier and hasnt yet pooed, then yes, I'd try and get her to do a poo before bed if you can cos she will be due one during the night otherwise, as I'm sure you've discovered already  :?                    

[picklesmum]

Another little tip from Pickle - when we began leaving him alone for short periods, I would give him his nylabone smeared with a little Phillidelphia cheese or peanut butter, or an ice cube to lick. This definitely took his mind off being alone, and kept him quiet for a good 5-10 minutes!
Emma and Pickle xx                    

[Cathy]

Thanks for all your help and support, i have tried lots of your suggestions, fingers crossed

So far so good on the night time front, this morning we had no mess and she went to bed at 10pm and woke up at 7.00am. Went straight outside and did her bits..  

She has started lots of chewing and biting. she chews everything in sight except her toys or baby bone.  she loves my clothes , and the furniture best. she's certainly getting confident around the house.

She also loves the burns food, i give her one of the mini bits when shes 'performed' outside. When i open the door she runs outside wee's about a tea spoon and sits by the treat bag.. not so difficult to train when THEY want...

She does tend to jump up alot, which worries me because of her back legs.

We took her for her first vaccination on wednesday, and it really knocked her for 6. she flopped on her side and wouldn't move for about 5 hours, then ate her meal, and flopped again. she had very flu like symptons, which i understand is normal.

I have put my house on the market, and everybody whose been round adores her, and whilst im holding her, they want to play with her. Its a shame she can't sell houses.                    

[Colin]

Jess sounds like a real little character.

Glad to hear things are improving, a 9 hour stint asleep is very impressive for such a young pup. Typical that once you make head way with the sleeping and toileting she presents you with a couple of new problems to tackle. These Cocker pups sure like to keep us on our toes.