Who's top dog?

[Loraine]

Some of you already know that I've been having some problems with my two fighting.  It's been awful.

In addition to some advice from Jane, I've been doing lots of research on the web around what I can do if anything to overcome this.  The one thing that keeps coming out is that I have to reinforce the position of the top dog by greeting, feeding and petting this one first.  Even after a fight you have to be mindful about which one you go and check over first. (That's when you've worked out how on earth you can separate them!)

My problem is that I really can't work out which one is top dog.  In theory it should be Candy because she's older and I had her first but according to some sources that I've been reading it says that the one who, among other things, goes through doors first, gets to food first and has the bolder personality is usually top dog.  If that's the case then it's Georgia.

Certain resources also say that even though I may have an idea of who is top dog, the dogs may not think the same as me and become frustrated when I confuse the issue and in turn increase the likelihood of a fight breaking out.  Is there any sure way of working this out?

 :?:                    

[Dessie]

Hi Candy

I would put Candy up as Top Dog and see how things go.  

I had trouble establishing out of two of mine who was Top Dog.  Sebastian was always the pushy one outside of the house but Bart was more pushy inside the house.  They would both share the same biscuits etc and if there was a fight Bart seemed to always come out on top.  As Sebastian was the first we put him up as Top Dog and Bart would get pushed away to start off with ie if Sebastian was on the sofa Bart wasn't allowed up unless Sebastian let him ie not grumble at him etc.  Sebastian always gets fed first, let off lead first etc and I must say this has worked fine for us, now I have Douglas bossing both the older two around :wink: :roll:

Give it a try - also when my two were being a nightmare I used some Skulcap and Valerian Tablets which you can buy from http://www.dorwest.com they are a herbal remedy for relief of anxiety, nervousness, excitability and travel sickness.  They really seemed to chill Bart out  :wink:

HTH                    

[Colin]

Hi Loraine

Having less experience of owning more than one dog than you I'm unable to help I'm afraid. It is a fascinating subject though, I spend ages watching Jimmy and Misty interact trying to detect the nuances of their gestures to each other.

I was wondering if most people try and encourage or develop a "top dog" from the start or only invovle themselves in this if a problem arises ? It's human nature to try to be even handed but it seems this isn't necessarily the best course of action with dogs.  :?: Does anyone know of a book that deals with this topic, that helps give some insight into their behaviour towards one another ?

When I got Misty my initial thoughts were that she would be top dog but at the moment she seems to defer to Jimmy, it is early days though as he does have the advantage of size. I haven't had any real problems yet, other than the stealing of toys etc which is probably normal. That is usually sorted out with a growl or a bark from Jimmy, although he is usually the perpetrator, but Misty has learnt to give in rather than bark and growl back like she did at first. She is more confident than him and is the first through doors and to food etc and she does seem to test him out now and again through games, when playing tug of war she refuses to give in until the bitter end, almost teasing him. I do wonder that she's biding her time and might attempt a "coup" at some stage, maybe when she's bigger, this is the way females seem to operate..... they like to be in charge. Is it likely that she will win out eventually ? From everything I've read the bitch usually ends up on top in the canine world, hence the problems that can arise from owning two or more of them, is this the case ? I've heard that males will have a brief fight with each other to establish rank, but bitches can fight to the death if need be. :shock: Owning one of each would seem to be more straight forward, at the moment I just keep an eye on things without really stepping in.....but, like Loraine, I'm wary of giving out the wrong signals.

It certainly is a minefield.                    

[Jane S]

The relationship between dogs that live together is indeed a fascinating subject & there are lots of different opinions out there. The traditional view that dogs live within a rigid pack structure with one dog being the dominant "alpha" remains very popular but there has been some rethinking on the subject in recent years. Some now think that the pack theory does not really apply to domestic dogs & some think that while there is a hierarchy when dogs live together, its not rigid & can change from one situation to another (which is why its sometimes so difficult to identify the "top dog" in a multi dog household). I could not pick a "top dog" from our 6 Cockers based on the traditional approach as it's never the same one who gets through the door first or gets to a ball first

I think if you truly have a dominant "alpha" type dog, that dog is not likely to get into fights simply because it doesn't need to! Fights are more likely to occur between middle-ranking dogs (usually the same sex & around the same age but not always) & usually over resources like food, toys, bones or even the owner's attention (which is why some dogs only ever fall out when their owner is in the room with them). It does seem to be true that a Cocker dog will defer to an adult Cocker bitch  (though I'm sure there are exceptions to this) but I don't think it's necessarily true that if you have a number of bitches living together they will have a tendency to fight. We have 5 bitches living together now aged from nearly 2 to 11 & they live perfectly happily together. We have had 2 bitches that did fall out but I put that down to a personality clash more than anything - sometimes we have to accept that, like us, dogs can sometimes just not get on with one another

PS This interview with Jean Donaldson mentions her approach to inter-dog fighting which differs a bit from the traditional approach: http://www.takingthelead.co.uk/2/ChatHist/...n_donaldson.htm. She has written 2 books on dog behaviour which are well worth a look, "The Culture Clash" & "Dogs Are From Neptune"                    

[*Jay*]

This is a subject that intrigues yet baffles me :roll:  When I first got Vegas, I did actively try and make Brook top dog just because I wanted him to be. However, when Dallas came along I just left them to it to see where he slotted in :?: Now, I'm not even sure if Brook is top dog or not - I think so :? I did wonder if Dallas may elevate his rank with him being entire but he's well on the bottom                    

[Sue H]

Dog hierarchy can change, as has been noted - with, as myself, two Cockers, an un-neutered bitch and a (now) neutered dog, I have experienced various stand-offs, which have mostly been de-fused by the older bitch, who puts the younger dog in his place when needed, but also panders to his demands for play by bringing him toys etc !!  Various organisations have dog behaviour specialists and many books contain advice, and letting the dogs fight would seem to be counter-productive in that it may set a precedent of behaviour which is the difficult to adjust.  Please seek advice locally, somewhere where you can take the dogs and have them observed in a fairly normal environment, and I'm sure that there are things that you can do which will remedy the situation!