Training without food

[Loraine]

I think that at 6 months, Georgia should be able to do things on command and simply receive praise rather than a food treat.  It's got to the stage where she won't do anything unless I have food in my hand.  It's almost like she thinks: no food, why bother and goes deaf or looks at me as if to say 'You want me to do that?  Yeah right!'  If I have got food in my hand to get her attention, she only stays still for what seems a milisecond before she starts jumping and barking.  She really is quite food obsessed!   Having said that though, I don't take any treats with me when we go for a walk and she always comes when called (so far...)  I'm mainly talking about the commands 'down', 'sit-stay' and walking to heel ...more or less eveything really!

We went back to class last night and I was really embarrassed because I thought that she was doing very well.  I have been doing short sessions with her at home on her own but she really is behind.  All the other dogs seemed like they were on remote control and I was with this albeit pretty dog but she was acting so dopey!

How do I get round not using any food?  I just want to get her a bit more settled before I go on holiday because I have a feeling the people looking after her won't ever want to have her again if she carries on being so naughty.                    

[FionaM]

Hi Loraine

My Poppy tries it on from time to time too, just like Georgia She's nearly two now and has no excuse for not remembering her commands.

My trainer told me that you have to make her realise that if you give a command and she knows exactly what you want her to do, she has to do it. If she doesn't do it you have to make her do it by pushing her firmly into the sit position and saying the command in a very firm voice, then lots of praise and go on as normal. You could still maybe give her a treat sometimes, so she's never sure whether she'll get food as a reward or not

Poppy learned pretty quickly that it was easier just to do what I said the first time rather than have me shove her into the position she was meant to be in

HTH

Fiona                    

[KellyP]

I agree Fiona.
I make Millie sit at every kerb before crossing the road. Sometimes she does it automatically before I have even said it, sometimes its on command - but sometimes she just looks up at me as if I am speaking a foreign language!   a loud firm SIT! and a push on her bottom followed by a happy "good girl Millie yes" usually does the trick. But like you Loraine I sometimes think she's just being obstinate or something!

I do the same trick as Fiona in the treat department as well.. sometimes she gets a treat, sometimes she doesn't .. but she has to behave and respond to my commands to find out  

Keep practicing, and don't worry about what the other puppies can do .. Georgia will catch up, and probably overtake them anyway  - thats what Millie did at puppy class                      

[Anita]

I'm glad I'm not the only one then - Phoebe has the selective hearing when sitting at the kerb. Sometimes its automatic and then others its Phoebe sit............Phoebe sit............Phoebe! SIT!

The only one we've still got to crack is the walking to heel                    

[PennyB]

Ages ago I found this on a general forum for dogs and kept it as it sums up all our frustration trying to train cockers to do anything sometimes (and why we love them to bits because of it):

"You and your cousins around the UK are easily the most humorous dogs I have ever encountered. Clever beyond belief with an uncanny ability to do whatever you want whenever you want and make it seem like that is what I wanted you to do all along. ...I was once told by the gundog trainer who I used to work for (and who happens to have made up more Field Trial Champion Cocker Spaniels than anyone else in living history) that 'the key to training a cocker is to convince him that what you are actually asking him to do was his idea all along and you are mereley confirming what a clever little fella he is for thinking of it. the moment you let slip the fact that he is only doing what you wanted him to do, guaranteed he will pack it in and think of something better to spend his time on'. ...
I love your breed but the battle of wits can often be exhausting unless you see the funny side of life. "

                     

[Loraine]

Ages ago I found this on a general forum for dogs and kept it as it sums up all our frustration trying to train cockers to do anything sometimes (and why we love them to bits because of it):

"You and your cousins around the UK are easily the most humorous dogs I have ever encountered. Clever beyond belief with an uncanny ability to do whatever you want whenever you want and make it seem like that is what I wanted you to do all along. ...I was once told by the gundog trainer who I used to work for (and who happens to have made up more Field Trial Champion Cocker Spaniels than anyone else in living history) that 'the key to training a cocker is to convince him that what you are actually asking him to do was his idea all along and you are mereley confirming what a clever little fella he is for thinking of it. the moment you let slip the fact that he is only doing what you wanted him to do, guaranteed he will pack it in and think of something better to spend his time on'. ...
I love your breed but the battle of wits can often be exhausting unless you see the funny side of life. "

 

What a great quote!!  I can really identify with that one.

Thanks for your replies Fiona, Kelly, Anita and Penny.  I'll just have to persevere...

                     

[Colin]

That quote from Penny is really good, I bet we can all recognise that in our cockers.

Jimmy has always been pretty good at most commands but seems to have relapses every once in a while ...... so I have to get the treats out again . I'd never had too much problem with recall until recently, now he just seems to want to come over to me in his own time when he's finished whatever it is he's up to. A freshly baked batch of liver cake is helping him get out of that little game. I suspect he sees me using treats to train Misty so expects similar rewards.

I thought Georgia has seemed very obedient on the couple of occassions I've met her. Maybe she's just going through a rebel stage. She is still quite young after all. I must admit I like the independant willful streak in cockers, although they can be infuriating at times.