Home reared or Not?

[shonajoy]

I think what Penny is trying to get across here(and correct me if I'm wrong) is that in these sort of cases, there will most probably be no reserach done on pedigrees to see if the two dogs are compatible. I have overheard a few people talking about mating their bitches with a nice looking dog along the road and when questioned about their pedigrees, they don't have a clue :roll:  The chances are that the dogs won't have had the necessary health tests done either.  

My Vegas is from a pet bitch but her breeder helped her by checking over the pedigrees to see if the two dogs would complement one another.  So, I'm not necessarily against pet bitches being bred from as long as they still do the necessary research/tests and have the back-up and help from a knowledgable person and don't just go with the first dog they come across :wink:

Yes, I realise that. I just felt it was rather a large generalisation to make. There are I'm sure, bad *professional* breeders, as well as bad *first time* breeders.  Good breeding isn't mutually exclusive to the pros.

I got my boy from a home situation, and like Emma said below, personally I liked the fact he'd been very well socialised with children, and was used to household noise. If all the tests are done, and pedigrees thoroughly researched, then it's a level playing field, even *professional* breeders have to start somewhere. :wink:

Shona                    

[PennyB]

I wasn't against home breeders per se its just that you will should check out the motives of those that home breed as I meet too many who are doing it for all the wrong reasons, when it should be about what's best for the breed. I got my pups from a home breeder, but one who also shows cockers and has done so for the past 20 years.

And then you've got the so-called home breeders who are actually puppy dealers (or working for them) from the puppy farms. They call themelves home breeders as that's what more people want these days. Yet another reason to really check who you are getting your puppy from.                    

[Mike]

Just wanted to add that 'professional' is the wrong word to be used I think - I doubt any experienced, reputable breeder would consider themselves 'professional' breeders... whereas commercial breeders might just  :wink:                    

[Magic Star]

I wasn't against home breeders per se its just that you will should check out the motives of those that home breed as I meet too many who are doing it for all the wrong reasons, when it should be about what's best for the breed. I got my pups from a home breeder, but one who also shows cockers and has done so for the past 20 years.

And then you've got the so-called home breeders who are actually puppy dealers (or working for them) from the puppy farms. They call themelves home breeders as that's what more people want these days. Yet another reason to really check who you are getting your puppy from.

  Hi Penny

I can see where you are coming from, but, I would say and this goes for any breed, that just because people show dogs it doesn't necessarily mean, that they are doing it for the right motives either :?   I know this is a contraversial comment to make, but I live in the real world :wink:   There are "good" and "bad" in every profession and that goes for everything including dog breeders and that goes from the man on the street who has one litter right upto the breeders/showers, at the end of the day when it comes down to it, people are people and make mistakes and I cannot see that every first time breeder is bad,  or that every show breeder is good  

I know you weren't suggesting that our pups where from a puppy farm supplier, but, I would like to say that there is absolutely no way on this earth I would get a pup from someone like that, I travelled a 4 hour round trip to get my pup,  where I could have just looked in Loot and got one locally :roll:  I have more intelligence than that  

Jane what you said about the KC register is right too, when I was looking for Indie I got a number off there, and it was quite local to me, the lady said that her male dog had got at her bitch who was in season :shock:  when I asked when the pups were ready she said NOW, oh I said how old are they, her reply 6 weeks!!!! :shock:  :shock:  I put down the phone in disgust and it did take a toll on my consience as I just wanted to go and rescue the pups :cry:   So like Penny and Jane have said do your homework thoroughly   There are some excellent breeders out there, who's main concern is for the breed and for the pups welfare   Its just a small minority who spoil it at times.                    

[Jane S]

Just wanted to add that 'professional' is the wrong word to be used I think - I doubt any experienced, reputable breeder would consider themselves 'professional' breeders... whereas commercial breeders might just  :wink:

Quite right Mike - I prefer to use the words "responsible" or "reputable", words which can apply just as well to a first-time breeder doing all the right things as to someone who's been doing it for years.                    

[Cathy]

So.... basically.. it doesn't really matter which as long as the breeder is reputable ? i am visiting their home next week, so i will see what happens.
Thanks for all your help.                    

[Loraine]

So.... basically.. it doesn't really matter which as long as the breeder is reputable ? i am visiting their home next week, so i will see what happens.
Thanks for all your help.

No Alan personally I don't think it does make much difference.  The tiny differences there are in my experience aren't anything to worry about.  

I've got two: one that was from a kennel and one that was reared at home.  They were both scared of the vacuum cleaner and hair dryer the first time I switched them on.  They were both nervous about sirens and other 'household' noises (not that a siren is household but you know what I mean!!) I live on a busy main road and the first time I took them out for a walk and there were huge lorries going passed with squeaky brakes did scare them but they're now used to it.  Neither was better at being house trained than the other.   They are both naughty!  :wink:

The one that is from a kennel is very independent and I have no problem leaving her on her own.  The other one is very lively and likes to be with you all the time if she can.  Sometimes I think it stems from always being around humans right from birth.  However there is absolutely no way of knowing for sure if it's just in her genes and had she been bred in a kennel that she would have been any different.  :?:

You're absolutely right in saying that you just have to be happy that the breeder is reputable and in addition to everything else has done everything reasonable to socialise the puppy up until you take it home.  You then have the responsibility to take over socialisation to ensure that the puppy is well adjusted but you know that already!

Hope you get on ok next week.

Loraine                      

[Beano and Charlies mum]

I know you weren't suggesting that our pups where from a puppy farm supplier, but, I would like to say that there is absolutely no way on this earth I would get a pup from someone like that, I travelled a 4 hour round trip to get my pup,  where I could have just looked in Loot and got one locally :roll:  I have more intelligence than that  

I think intelligence is the wrong word here !!! It is more down to knowledge i think !!!!  Unfortunately puppy farmers can have many disguises !!! And some of the puppy farm pups are still kc regd !!!!

There is every possibility that Beano could be from a puppy farm !!! :shock:  Unfortunately i wasnt well up on the breeding side of things! I did research the cocker temperament and characteristics !!! And a lot of people dont know about the show side of things or the breeding side of things as they are just pet owners !!!!

That is why sites like this are invaluable and i only wish i didnt look for a cocker site after i got Beano and had done before!!! But alas this is sometimes the case with people !!!! I would never for one minute  or have, regretted getting Beano , he is so perfect in every way !!!!

Unforuneately as there are pups advertised in Loot that are KC regd, people just assume that they are from good sources !!!!

Exam wise i am very very intelligent !!! Just wasnt mega knowledgeable on the dog side !!!!!!                    

[PennyB]

One way to counteract lack of socializing pups or continuation of socializing is from day 1 you get your pup carry them everywhere you can. Don't wait until you can put them on a lead and put them down on the ground before they 'meet' traffic/busy road—carry them along while you walk along the pavement and get them used to the sights sounds and smells that way. I think the only things my pups had never seen were umbrellas—I got them during a very dry spell and so no rain. But between 8 weeks and when they could go down on the ground they went to fairgrounds, train/bus stations, high street window shopping, travelled in cars/buses/trains, agricultural shows, met people of different shapes and sizes (incl. people and their wheelchairs and kids in prams), the list was endless and good fun.                    

[shonajoy]

I wasn't against home breeders per se its just that you will should check out the motives of those that home breed as I meet too many who are doing it for all the wrong reasons, when it should be about what's best for the breed. I got my pups from a home breeder, but one who also shows cockers and has done so for the past 20 years.

And then you've got the so-called home breeders who are actually puppy dealers (or working for them) from the puppy farms. They call themelves home breeders as that's what more people want these days. Yet another reason to really check who you are getting your puppy from.

Penny, I don't understand your point - you said earlier that home breeders didn't do their research, and then you are saying your home breeder was ok because she showed? It seems to support my original assertion that home breeders can be reputable, just as some can't. :?:

Like I said before, there are good breeders of both persuasions.                    

[shonajoy]

Just wanted to add that 'professional' is the wrong word to be used I think - I doubt any experienced, reputable breeder would consider themselves 'professional' breeders... whereas commercial breeders might just  :wink:

Yes, that's why I put the word in asterisks, I was pretty sure it would be the wrong one to use. :wink:                    

[Mike]

I know you did Shona - I just wanted to mention it in context of the original question for Alan, that if any breeder refers to themselves as 'professional', whether they rear their pups indoors or out, it's usually a sign to avoid them as they're probably a commercial outfit. I was on a small business forum not long ago and someone posted a question along the lines of "I want to set up in business as a professional dog breeder"

Sam, nice to see you back, hope Beano is doing well :wink:                    

[Beano and Charlies mum]

Thanks Mike

Beano is doing fine !!!! Very hairy and cheeky but very fine and spoiled !!!!!
Hope yours are well too ?                    

[PennyB]

Re: "Penny, I don't understand your point - you said earlier that home breeders didn't do their research, and then you are saying your home breeder was ok because she showed? It seems to support my original assertion that home breeders can be reputable, just as some can't.  "

I didn't say home breeders don't do their research but that I have met a lot of breeders who don't and they are also home breeders. I was trying to highlight that this area isn't as black and white as some think and that just because someone says that their pups are home bred doesn't mean that it is always good, just as kennels aren't always bad.

I was suggesting that there are home breeders and there are home breeders, some research (and go into breeding properly) some don't but the most important thing is that one should assertain which do and which don't. I was trying to outline that just because someone says they are home breeders please watch out for those that have done little more than mate their cute bitch with the bloke's dog they met on the park sort of thing (and I mean those can just be the only motives for breeding—I have a dog he/she has a dog let's get together) or the conman (or woman) who's trying to sell you a package of home breeding when they are nothing more than puppy dealers! Look at some of the free ads that say home breeding and then look again to make sure they are not just part of a puppy farm network in disguise.

There are home breeders though that as the label says they breed from home and they've researched what they are doing and breed some lovely healthy sociable dogs that don't have any health defects, etc.

I only gave one example of achieving the best out of a breed by using showing and it was that an example (and it just so happens to have been what my dogs' breeder also does).

I'm not against home breeders at all but I think we have to keep are eyes open and be aware of how the world is (thankfully my vet gives this lecture to all his clients who are thinking of buying a pedigree pup as he's fed up of seeing pedigree dogs with lots of health and behavioural problems).

As and aside it is such a shame then that some get pups from home breeders who've carefully bred the pups and socialized as far as they can for the age of that pup in the home and then the new owner doesn't bother to socialize their new pup when they get them (as they think they are socialized enough). You're then left with a dog who hasn't the foggiest idea about other dogs etc., but at least its not scared of the washing machine or vaccuum cleaner!