Author Topic: Blue Roan Markings Etc  (Read 5145 times)

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Offline Colin

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Blue Roan Markings Etc
« on: August 29, 2004, 03:25:09 PM »

This is probably a really dumb question but I'll ask anyway.

I've come across a couple of blue roans recently with very similar markings to Misty , not so much the depth of shade but the position of the black patches. Mary's Lottie are almost identical too. I've also noticed photos of some show Cockers, including the famous Tracey Witch of Ware, who have the patches in the exact same place also. I presume this is a bit of a lottery really where the patches occur but was wondering if some marking patterns are a lot more common than others ? Misty has one at the base of her tail, a large circular one a couple of inches further forward and then a kind of stripey one near her left shoulder.

Whilst I'm asking silly questions, here's another that I've wondered about. :rolleyes:  When looking through books with photos of past show champs it is noticable how up until  the early 60's the Cockers had much less feathering from their undercarriages and very little,if any, on their rear legs compared to their modern counterparts. The pre-war dogs also seem more elongated, many of them are a bit "bum-high" and most have longer docked tails than you see now . Is this all to do with natural evolution helped by breeding from the best dogs, alterations in the breed standard that breeders aim to reproduce or just a change in fashion ? It seems odd that the whole look of the Cocker has changed so dramatically over as little as 60 years. It has changed for the better, I think...... some of those older photos don't really look like Cockers as we would know them today, at all. incidentally Jimmy seems a bit of a throw back, in that he looks more like a 50's cocker than ones you see nowadays in shows.    

Offline Gilly

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Blue Roan Markings Etc
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2004, 03:40:28 PM »
Not sure about the markings, but Butty can join Jimmy back in the 50's/ 60's  :)  

Offline Shirley

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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2004, 04:25:51 PM »
That's an interesting question and as you've probably guessed, I have no idea what the answer is but will be watching this thread carefully for anyone who does.  I can't even tell you where Cooper's markings are, as right now, with his white flash on his head he looks a bit like a mismarked black  :rolleyes:  :)   Once I've got rid of all the puppy fluff I'll have a better idea - he does have a big patch on his rear end but his tiny tail is roan  :D  
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Offline Cob-Web

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Blue Roan Markings Etc
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2004, 04:41:41 PM »
Not claiming to be an expert, but Molo is line bred with Sh Ch Rob Roy and Bitcon Troubador in his ancestry and both of these dogs share the characteristic of having rich velvet-black legs. Molo's sire (Bitcon Columbo at Islanza)also has these markings, and it looks like Molo is also going to have these dark legs (I hope so, I love them  ;) )

I've no idea whether some markings are 'typical' but I am guessing that there is a hereditary element to their location!
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Offline Magic Star

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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2004, 04:52:52 PM »
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Molo is line bred with Sh Ch Rob Roy and Bitcon Troubador in his ancestry and both of these dogs share the characteristic of having rich velvet-black legs.
 
Indie has Troubador in her ancestry too, in fact I think the vast majority of Blue Roans have  Bitcon in them somewhere :lol:   She has black legs with lots of white speckles :wub:   Indie doesn't seem to have the grey/blue effect on her coat she mostly consists of black and white <_<   She has the patch by her bum, then two black spots further up, with a black band that goes around her shoulders, this definately comes from her dad Wilholme Mystic Memory, Indies mum was a very light blue roan, but Indie is quite dark, perhaps the dads determine the colouring?

Edited for typos :ph34r:  


Offline bluesmum

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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2004, 05:05:01 PM »
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Indies mum was a very light blue roan, but Indie is quite dark, perhaps the dads determine the colouring?

 
I wouldn't say so Emma as Blues dad is a light blue, his mum is very dark, Blue is sort of between the two  ;)  
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Offline Magic Star

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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2004, 05:19:56 PM »
Quote
Quote
Indies mum was a very light blue roan, but Indie is quite dark, perhaps the dads determine the colouring?

 
I wouldn't say so Emma as Blues dad is a light blue, his mum is very dark, Blue is sort of between the two  ;)
 :blink:Well there goes that theory then :lol:  


Offline Jane S

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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2004, 05:55:44 PM »
Colouring & markings are certainly genetic but they don't come from just one parent but from both. In one of my old genetics books, there is a page showing line drawings of the inheritance of markings on particolours - I'll see if I can find it later as it may help explain it easier ;)

As to how much Cockers have changed over the years, that is certainly true :) Peggy Grayson puts the gradual development of heavier & longer coats in the show Cocker to the advent of the American Cocker to the UK ie people admired the glamour of the Americans & wanted some of this glamour in Cockers too. I think she is probably right ;) There have been other subtle changes too - shorter backs, longer necks etc which again has more to do with fashion & wanting a more attractive show dog (it can't be anything to do with function as Working Cockers are much more like the show Cocker of the 40s & 50s)

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Offline Gilly

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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2004, 07:12:22 PM »
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(it can't be anything to do with function as Working Cockers are much more like the show Cocker of the 40s & 50s)

Don't tell the guy at Briarquest that  :lol:  :lol:  

Offline lizzy

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Blue Roan Markings Etc
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2004, 08:41:55 PM »
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Don't tell the guy at Briarquest that  :lol:  :lol:
 :P  B)  



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Offline Kim

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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2004, 08:55:50 PM »
:lol:  :lol:  :P  
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Offline Shirley

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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2004, 10:10:37 PM »
:D  
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Offline Gilly

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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2004, 10:48:40 PM »
:lol: Like ther Avatar Colin  :lol:  

Offline Tracey J

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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2004, 11:11:40 PM »
I also have no idea about markings but Molly's sound very similar to Misty's (except she's orange obviously!), and I've found that a lot of her ancestors including aunts/uncles etc. have identical markings (on the Rancecraig side) whether they are blue, orange or liver.  Both her parents are quite dark (both blue) and all their pups (2 litters so far) seem to be dark too.

 
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Offline Jane S

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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2004, 11:46:09 PM »
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Don't tell the guy at Briarquest that  :lol:  :lol:
Oh no, don't tell me I agree with him on something :lol:  ;)

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