Golden Cockers - is there a risk of behaviour problems

[no time for this]

Youre right to question,( its the basis of scientific discovery), but in my humble mind, epilepsy is the best fit to the "rage" problem. We may be completely wrong to use a human condition to explain an animal condition, but we may be completely right as well!

But epilepsy is a well recognised, and treatable, condition in dogs 

I don't disagree that this MAY be the explaination, but like Caroline, was surprised that your post confidently stated that it WAS a form of Epilepsy - for a moment I was hopeful that I had missed some published research that provided an explaination 

whatever I say you will disagree with, but you are happy to make broad statements like "But epilepsy is a well recognised, and treatable, condition in dogs" ?

[Cob-Web]

whatever I say you will disagree with, but you are happy to make broad statements like "But epilepsy is a well recognised, and treatable, condition in dogs" ?

Actually, I was agreeing - and Epilepsy is recognised and treatable.

Canine Epilepsy is considered more common in dogs than humans (5% compared with 1% according to some research) and some genetic mutations that lead to canine epilepsy have been identified and a test developed for them 

[Jane S]

The dog panics and takes a nip, suddenly everyones shouting about rage! (which is a form of epilepsy, and not a behavioural condition).

Phil, if you want to learn more about canine epilepsy, THIS is an excellent site. As others have said, epilepsy has been suggested as a cause of "Rage" but it is NOT proven so the theory is no more valid than any other at the present time. It's good to share opinions but those opinions should not be represented as facts

Jane

[Shirley]

Canine Epilepsy is considered more common in dogs than humans

I know this is a serious topic - sorry, but this really made me giggle, Rachel!    I didn't know that humans could get Canine Epilepsy 

[Cob-Web]

Canine Epilepsy is considered more common in dogs than humans

I know this is a serious topic - sorry, but this really made me giggle, Rachel!    I didn't know that humans could get Canine Epilepsy 

Well spotted - it was very late  I re-read it this morning and thought no-one would notice 

[Top Barks]

I have read that cocker Rage is related to a specific gene which also effects the colouration of the dog which is why Golds and blacks are more at risk.
Oliver is a goldie and was a truly hansome dog in his younger days, but he's always been a bit on the grumpy side and even nipped me on a few occasions many years ago.
This however had nothing to do with rage but his socialisation and treatment by his former owners.
I love him to bits and if he didn't grump around the place I'd wonder what was wrong.
Mark

[DennyK]

Mark - this isn't a facetious question - Paddy's such a sweetie and a little bum waggler all the time, but how does a dog "grump around" the place - I can't quite picture what happens or how I'd recognise if I came across a grumpy dog.  does the grumpiness make them more likely to be snappy "out and about"?

[Cob-Web]

I have read that cocker Rage is related to a specific gene which also effects the colouration of the dog which is why Golds and blacks are more at risk.

I'd be interested to read that reference if you have it.......
Dog colour genetics is a majorly complex issue - and there are many alleles at several different loci that combine to define the colour  and markings of a dog.

While it is possible that RAGE is linked to one or more of the same areas of the Genotype, it is sadly not a simple issue; and research is not funded to the level it needs to be to make advances   

[Top Barks]

I have read that cocker Rage is related to a specific gene which also effects the colouration of the dog which is why Golds and blacks are more at risk.

I'd be interested to read that reference if you have it.......
Dog colour genetics is a majorly complex issue - and there are many alleles at several different loci that combine to define the colour  and markings of a dog.

While it is possible that RAGE is linked to one or more of the same areas of the Genotype, it is sadly not a simple issue; and research is not funded to the level it needs to be to make advances   

Have read this in a few books and I think one of them was Raymond and Laura coppingers  book on the origin of dogs Without looking on the bookshelf at home I think it's called dogs a startling new understanding.
I may be wrong as I read so much but i'll try to have a look and check.
You sound like an expert could you recomend me some further reading on the subject please.
Thanks mark

[Jane S]

I've got the Coppinger book Mark but it's quite a heavy read so I haven't read all of it - haven't come across anything about Rage yet in it but then I do keep picking it up and putting it back down again As far as I know, no research has ever come to a definitive conclusion about what causes Rage (some like Peter Neville even say it doesn't actually exist) although it seems likely to be inherited but any mode of inheritance has not been established. I don't really buy the theory that the gene/genes for Rage are specifically related to the colour genes for red/gold/black because the genes that produce these colours in solids are also present in particolours which have not generally been associated with temperament problems. I think the problem possibly lies with individual "affected" dogs from the distant past who just happened to be a certain colour and who were widely bred from by irresponsible breeders to produce a colour that was in huge public demand at that time. The problem was then passed on to future generations by breeders who may not have known about the temperaments of those ancestors but continued to breed to the same lines. Just a theory of course, it seems unlikely we'll ever get a conclusive answer

Jane

[Cob-Web]

You sound like an expert could you recomend me some further reading on the subject please.
Thanks mark

Not on RAGE  - I studied genetics a few years ago. so this kind of thing interests me 

Janes website have the best collection of referennes of RAGE that I can find, including material by Linda Ward who has spent years researching the problem as far as I am aware......

Cocker Spaniel Rage site

[no time for this]

widely bred from by irresponsible breeders to produce a colour that was in huge public demand at that time.
Jane

I think this is a key point, so much public demand for a dog that many people didn't actually realise was a dog and not an animated teddy bear. It happened to me last night at a friends, his girlfriend came round and wanted to make a fuss over soots. I said no, just ignore him and let him come to you, she said ooh no he wants a hug! I said if you hug him he'll bite you! No he wont she said! And went for him. At this point she had been told he was blind, had had a bad past and was very wary of strangers. One quick snap from Soots and she ran off screaming (he didnt bite her as I'd got his lead onr and was ready to pull him back).

The point is that what she saw didnt relate to what I was telling her, to the point where she put herself in danger to prove that what she was seeing was true, and not what she was hearing!  Putting that at the end of a sentance means I'm right apparently!  ooh it does  there it goes again 

[Scootysmum]

My Scooty is adorable, a tad mental when out chasing the local duck population, but certainly not exhibiting any signs of rage. He is a soppy little sausage.I passed a woman on the tow path the other day - she took one look at Scoots and said to her friend "Oh, what a beautiful dog...but the red ones have terrible temperaments". I wanted to slap her!
I guess red haired folk have had to put up with the old "fiery temperament" label too (so my house is hell, having a red haired daughter and a golden cocker 
Oh yeah and I am also epileptic!!

[*-Nikki-*]

Have watched this topic with interest; as you all know I do have a soft spot golds/reds  .
I would also say that Linda's website is the best I have seen so far, on the subject .

[Cob-Web]

It happened to me last night at a friends, his girlfriend came round and wanted to make a fuss over soots. I said no, just ignore him and let him come to you, she said ooh no he wants a hug! I said if you hug him he'll bite you! No he wont she said! And went for him. At this point she had been told he was blind, had had a bad past and was very wary of strangers. One quick snap from Soots and she ran off screaming (he didnt bite her as I'd got his lead onr and was ready to pull him back).

I take it you won't be visiting again.....silly moo, putting a dog in that position is unforgiveable