2 dogs fighting

[lizmil]

I've written before for help and it seemed to work for a while.  My 2 rescue cockers keep fighting.  The top dog is half the size of the other one and constantly growls and keeps him off the furniture.
The had the occasional spat after this but last night they started fighting and now just won't stop.  The big dog (Nemo) just keeps going for Murphy for no reason.  I've had to shut them in different rooms when I've come to work but am worried sick.
I have tried the chemical castration tablets on Murphy (which didn't work) and am going to the vet tomorrow to get them to try on Nemo.
I really don't know what to do as my husband is threatening to get rid of one of them - which I will not allow.
A guy at my husbands work breeds collie's and has told him that Nemo is just so fed up with Murphy growling at him all the time (although he doesn't really go for him) that there is no way back and my husband is foolishly listening to him.
Can anyone please advise?                    

[Jane S]

To be honest Liz, I think your husband's work colleague may have a point - often when dogs have got to the stage you describe, it can be almost impossible to get things back on an even keel & the only solution is to either separate them permanently or if keep them apart at all times if you can not bear to rehome one of them. However, if you are going to persevere with the pack ranking theory, then you must support the "top dog" at all times - feed him first, give him attention first etc. It should have been Nemo (if you are sure he is the lower ranked dog) who received the chemical castration to lower his status even further. If you chemically castrate the "top dog", then you reduce his status to the same level as the other dog making fights even more likely. I hope you do find a solution as dogs which fight all the time are not happy dogs & I'm sure you're not finding it easy to cope with the constant tension either Good luck!

Jane                    

[Pammy]

Liz I have to agree with Jane on this one. I have problems of a similar nature with my two boys, but mine don't fight as yours seems to. They will have the odd spat but that's it. They do however grumble a lot and there are times when I have felt as low as you are probably feeling now and can see they are unhappy.

If they were fighting as yours appear to be then I think it is a much more serious problem and you may have to consider the inevitable for their sake and yours no matter how hard that decision may be. At the end of the day, you have to look at quality of life for you all, and if it's not there then the enjoyment you wanted will also be missing.

Good luck, hope you do find a solution.                    

[Dessie]

Hi Liz

As Jane has said I think you need to make sure you are praising up the "Top Dog" if you are not then this is why you are still having problems from my own personal experience.  As Jane said if Nemo is the lower ranking dog then he should have been chemically castrated and not Murphy as you were pushing him down in the pecking order rather than up.  

I have found that Skulcap & Valerian Tablets from Dorwest Herbs have helped when Bart starts to push his luck with Sebastian.  It might be worth giving these a go with Nemo.

I know what you're going through as I had this just over a year ago and thankfully now things are fine between the boys.                    

[lizmil]

Thanks very much for your replies, this is very helpful.  Murphy's castration tablets will have worn off by now (it's about 6 months ago), so Nemo is next in line.
I have called a behavioural therapist today also who advises that I am too soft and must teach both dogs that they are below me in the pecking order (I feed them before me and let them on my couch / bed /  out first etc.) so she advises this has to change.  
She also told me not to shut them in seperate rooms - so both dogs got let out into one room at lunchtime (they had both dirtied the floor which they've never done before).  So hopefully when we go home they won't have faught.
The therapist has advised that if in 2 days things are no better, she will do a home visit and try to sort them out.
Here's hoping and thanks again.                    

[Loraine]

Hi Liz

Just to let you know that you also have my sympathy having gone through something similar in Nov and Dec with my two.  I hear two bitches fighting is worse than two dogs but I don't know - any two dogs fighting is awful.

I made the sad decision to rehome my youngest one but 1 hour before I was supposed to drop her off I pulled out.  I just could not face having to part with her.  

Things thankfully have been fine so far but I did have to keep them separate to begin with which is a logistical nightmare.  Having one crated or one outside seems really unfair and it's just so sad to see them like that.  Your nerves also become quite frayed because you just don't know if/when something is going to kick off.  

I too was also advised to assert myself more with them so that they knew I was in charge and wouldn't tolerate bad behaviour;  I was way too soft.     :roll:   I'm not saying that this will cure things but in certainly has helped.  Of course it was their seasons which was the trigger to them fighting to begin with so I just hope come May when the older one is due again, they won't be terrible again.

I hope the behaviourist can help you further.

Loraine                      

[Hel]

I have two rescue males aged 5 (Fletch) and 7ish (Pip).  Fletch is entire and Pip neutered (by his rescue).  It is Pip, who came after Fletch, who is top dog in most situations - but not all.

However, both of them will have a growl at each other if one higher than the other  (on the sofa, my bed, etc.).  But, that is all it is - they never fight - but they do play fight.

My parents' two entire males, however, would fight to the death if allowed, after getting on for about a year, and were seperated for 10 years!  However, when my neutered rescue Jamie came along, he was top dog to both of them.

The point I'm trying to make is that neutering does not necessarily mean that a dog will be lower in the 'rank' to an entire, particularly if the dog is neutered as an older adult.  IMO, it is down to the personalities of the individual dogs and their like/dislike of the other dog.                    

[*Jay*]

I made the sad decision to rehome my youngest one but 1 hour before I was supposed to drop her off I pulled out. I just could not face having to part with her.  

That sounds like something I would do Loraine  Must have been awful for you to even have to contemplate that course of action.

I've been quite lucky in that when Vegas and Dallas have a scrap, it doesn't really amount to much.  I'm still somewhat confused as to why Vegas feels the need to start things off with Dallas.  Dallas is the only one still entire but is very much bottom of the pack - he accepts that and is quite happy there, he has never challenged the other two at all. Yet Vegas seems to feel the need to growl at him when he walks round the room or walks past him when hes on the sofa. When Vegas does have a go at Dallas, he doesn't fight back - he just rolls over and screams :shock: The only thing i can think of is that Vegas is confused over his position and is possibly wanting to take top dog status from Brook(I did read that when dogs get old, a younger dog may take over their position) but takes it out on dallas because he knows he can :?  But their little squabbles aside, they do get on very well.