Working And Show Cockers

[miche]

Hiya Mikey is a working cocker and I didn't realise there was such a difference in working and show cockers until the wag and bone show.  COL met up at midday and we met Issey - who I fell in love with - she's a beautiful show cocker.  She is exactly the same age as Mikey (13 weeks) and black just like him but apart from that they looked very different.  Mikey is bigger and longer and his coat is a lot flatter, his eyes were not so droopy.  I love both types but there's not many workers about and we were asked at the show if he was definately a cocker!! Any-one else know about the differences in the two in looks/temperment?  I have also been told that workers are nutcases but easier to train - any truth in this?  Michele

Apologies - just noticed I posted this in health and it's a general question  

[workingcockers]

I have put a pic of both types in the following URL - hope it works. The golden show type is my Lynwater Firebird over Kaystra, the white with black ticking in my home bred kaystra Stella. Stellas pic was taken tonight - she has never been 'stacked' and looks awful to be honest as she has a longer neck and better shoulders than it appears (and was standing on a slippy table) , however she is of typical size and proportions to what I like and breed and I think her pic will show that there is not much diff in size(height) and body length of the type I like and breed, to the show type..There are of course longer/taller/shorter working types about but Stella is typical of her bloodlines.PS - Stella does not have the type of head I like, but cant have everything!!

Kirsten's cockers

[Jessie]

Well, I am no expert and just learning about this myself.  Our Jessie has long hair and seems quite stocky compared to our new pup,Mica.  Mica has very flat and short fur and looks a lot more leggy.  However, I think the body/leg size may be an illusion, caused by the lack of feathering compared to Jess.   Mica is more relaxed in personality than Jess (we nickname Jess "Princess" as she is a bit aloof and can be a bit of a prima donna! - cute as a button though...).  And, Mica is easier to train so far......  she has got different habits than Jess.  Jess has never been a jumper where as Mica is often found on tables, and jumped clean out the bath tub from a standing start last time I tried to bathe her.  Jess has trouble just attempting press-ups on the side of the tub!

It was not until I looked at their pedigrees in more detail that I realised that Jess has showdog champs and Mica working champs....and I believe this explains the difference in looks and personality.  The difference seems to work as the two compliment each other quite well.

[Penel]

not until I looked at their pedigrees in more detail that I realised that Jess has showdog champs and Mica working champs....and I believe this explains the difference in looks and personality.

although this has worked out well for you - which is great - others please take note - how important this is to carefully look at your prospective puppy's pedigree - if you want a show cocker then you are looking for Sh Ch if you are looking for a working cocker then there will hopefully be some FTCH in there.... a good breeder will tell you which strain of cockers they are breeding.

Here are some photos of my two - I am sure you can all see the differences    - Tilly orange and white show strain, followed by Hattie liver and white working strain.

[Cob-Web]

I have also been told that workers are nutcases but easier to train - any truth in this? 

Just like all selective breeding, the desired traits are enhanced with each generation - so  in the case of working strains of many breeds, the traits that are enhanced are the intellect and desire to "please" by obeying commands, and the drive and stamina to work.

These same qualities can often result in a frustrated or "nutcase" dog, if they are not channelled - but if you keep a working dog busy and give him the opportunity to please they usually excel  

I agree with Penel to a point - I am surprised that the breeders of working cockers are not more forthcoming about the differences between the strains when they are talking to prospective puppy owners    There is limited information about working cockers freely available (except on COL   ) so most people new to the breed are unaware of the differences in temperment and appearance between the strains  

BTW - gorgeous pics Penel  

[Jessie]

Just to follow on to Penel's reply to my earlier response.  She is right.  I thought I had learnt a good deal about cockers but still managed to miss the fact that Mica was of Working cocker line.  OH and I were speaking about this just yesterday.  Now, for us, it does not matter.  Our dogs compliment each other, we do not show them, we have no intention of breeding and both are wonderful friendly and loveable additions to our family.  They are both healthy enough and we work hard to ensure they are well behaved (well, we try!   ).  In fact, I like that they are both different!
 
However, if you really do want something specific - be it a working line or a show line, then please do ask to see and check the pedigree first - before you choose a pup and fall in love with it!!  

The photos are great, and confirm to me that I do indeed have one of each!
Jo

[Penel]

Until about 3 years ago I wasn't even aware that there were working strain cockers - it came as a complete surprise to me - as I thought cockers meant like Saffy and Tilly !!!  when I realised what working cockers were like though I looked into it much more and decided I really wanted one, as I do a lot of training with my dogs and really enjoy the challenge and rewards of training a very intelligent dog.  I have to say (and please don't all kill me !) that working cockers do have far more capacity to learn fast and more than the show strain.... I'll go and hide now !!!
I have 4 dogs all have different abilities and qualities - and Hattie is way way more intelligent than all the others - my English setter is undoubtedly the least intelligent (but the most affectionate !) then the lurcher, then Tilly - and then Hatters is top of the class !!!  bear in mind though that this intelligence means lots more capacity to be clever and naughty - meaning that they need lots more to do all the time !!!

[mmathison]

Hi

I have two working spaniels different lines and very different to look at.

Both my sisters have show type spaniels,i would say there is a huge difference
in them with the working cocker being exceptionally energetic and very very mad
always sniffing things and can run for miles they never get tired and always on the go.Elle is my oldest bitch she looks more like a sussex spaniel very petite where as ruben is longer in the body and has a different size head funny to look at together so different guess its down to the breeding.Also easier to groom short sleek hair although i do love both types i prefer the working type.They love to do the flushing thing in the long grass.Also soft toys are a must and they tend to hold
them very gently.


Regards Michelle

[tysilio]

Our working cocker Merlin (12 months old) looks remarkably similar to Penel's Hattie. Outside, his nose never leaves the floor and his tail never stops wagging. He runs around like a duracell toy with the switch stuck at 'on!'. Inside he's as quiet as a mouse and likes nothing more than to cuddle up to you on the chair. I'm finding clicker obedience training difficult as he doesn't seem treat orientated (can't get his nose off the floor) and walking to heel is very slow going! His temperament is super both with strangers and children. We've never had any issues with mouthing or night time crying. I'd have another worker anytime.

[Cob-Web]

I have to say (and please don't all kill me !) that working cockers do have far more capacity to learn fast and more than the show strain.... I'll go and hide now !!!

I'll hide with you Penel - they have to be fast learners otherwise they won't be good workers - which is why they are bred in the first place  

I am sure some show cockers are as bright as some workers - but in Molo's case he was definitely "Bred for Beauty not for Brains"  

[Penel]

I'll hide with you Penel - they have to be fast learners otherwise they won't be good workers - which is why they are bred in the first place 

I am sure some show cockers are as bright as some workers - but in Molo's case he was definitely "Bred for Beauty not for Brains" 

yup Tilly was bred for beauty too     Saffy however, my first cocker - show strain - was incredibly bright - almost up to Hattie's level I'd say.  Saffy's mother, although show strain  - was used for working.

[Em - Oscar's mum]

Oscar is a working cocker and is indeed, very very mad.  He never runs out of energy which can sometimes drive us up the wall, as he never seems to settle but we love him all the same and he has been very quick indeed to learn the basics.  We are still working on "drop" and "paw" but hopefully we will get there soon.

[workingcockers]

"I am surprised that the breeders of working cockers are not more forthcoming about the differences between the strains when they are talking to prospective puppy owners "

We are!! I am probably one of the few working breeders that has experience of owning and breeding both types. So - when people come to see pups here, they know exactly what they are looking at and can see the difference between the types and have a chat (interrogation by me!!) . They go away with a paper copy of the pedigree to think things over as I will not sell to someone who I have never met etc - that way they have 4 weeks or so to ask any more questions, check up on ancestors etc. When they leave here with the pup, as part of my puppy pack I provide a 20 page A4 display book with all the KC stuff and a good version of the pedigree . microchip paperwork, vacc card, insurance, copy of eye and hip scores for parents etc etc and as many pics of ancestors as I can lay my hands on. I think I am as honest and upfront as possible.

Many working breeders will not sell to non shooting homes as maybe they are being honest about their stock in that they feel not suitable as a pet. Most of mine go as pets as I dont breed high energy cockers as I personally dont like them. Again, we are back to the argument that why should only the working strain breeders have to explain themselves, why do the show strain breeders not make sure that the buyers are aware they are buying a show strain and not a working strain?

However - you will always get breeders of both types who will sell to anyone who has the cash and that will never change..

[Gilly]

I don't think it matter wether they are working or show type they will all have different levels of learning abilities. I think Buttons is extremely intelligent compared to my friends cocker who quite frankly is thick  ::  (in a nice way)  but ever so gorgeous and a total comedian   I think like people some are cleverer than others, though I agree with you Penel English Setters are probably near the bottom of the pack as my friend has one and its a bit thick too (in a nice way   )

I had a phone call today and someone asked me the difference between show and working which I gladly explained  

[workingcockers]

PS - with regard to information on the web - there are some sites who try and do a comparison but end up condemning one type.

One day soon when I have time I intend to revamp my web site - I might even split it into 2 sites (although to me that it similar to splitting the breed - not sure yet if I will do this) - one working cockers only (Lorne) and the other show dogs (Kaystra) which will also have my setter and new cairn pup on it too. I hope to do a comparison using better pics than those I posted on photobox (if I can find another handler!! - cant work out how to paste 2 pics together) and write a speel. However, I will not be slagging one off against the other as that is not my aim.