Crate Training

[Clawson77]

Morning..

Great to be part of forum dedicated to Cocker Spaniels.

We brought home a 10 week old furry friend (Barley) last week and we are struggling with acclimatising him to his crate. We currently feed him in his crate and he is happy walking in and out of it, generally looking for scraps of food but, he starts whining and yelping as soon as he realises the door is closed. Yesterday I left him in their for an hour during which he managed to settle down twice for 10 mins, should I continue with this 'tough love' or review my approach.

Today I was going to try and put him in there with a lamb neck or beef rib/ oxtail bone to keep him distracted for a few hours whilst I potter about and get chores done, has anyone else attempted this method??

Any advice would be warmly appreciated...

[bizzylizzy]

I always used to give Humphrey a kong filled with something to keep him occupied and distracted and that worked really well to start with, so I can't see any problem with the lamb neck, (presumably he's used to bones? if not I'd wait to see how he  copes with them first). An old t-shirt of yours might also give him a bit of comfort, also a bit of background music can help. If he's over excited, I would also try and calm things down a bit before you put him in to rest and obviously make sure he's had a wee etc beforehand.
The crate issue is always a little controversial on here as there are some who are totally against them and others, like me, who feel that used sensibly, they're a safe haven for the dogs and a very useful commodity for us! Some people have them situated in a busy place and carry on doing things around them, personally this didn't work for us as Humphrey was always frightened of missing something, so I put it in a quiet corner where he could hear but not see me, - but that's a matter of choice, you have to see what works best for you.
How is he at night, does he sleep ok in there?

[Clawson77]

Hi Bizzylizzy

Thanks for the advice..

He won't entertain the cage unless food is involved, I filled a Kong with some cooked chicken and that kept him entertained for 10 minutes whilst I had a shower, once he realised he couldn't get anymore out - the whining commenced hence the decision to move onto bones. He currently sleeps on the bed with us at night, letting us know when he needs to potty.

Our primary reason for crate training is that both myself and other half work and potentially he could be without human company for upto 3 hours (his grandparents also have a cocker which they will walk Barley with when we're not around, weekends and holidays, he gets our undivided attention.) and as you mentioned we want him to understand his crate is somewhere safe and warm. 

I'm really pleased with his progress so far, learning to sit and being really good on a lead when we go for little walks to get him used to what his routine will be. It would be amazing if we could nail his crate training.

[bizzylizzy]

Hmmmmm   Are you intending to always let him sleep on your bed? That's NOT a criticism - our last dog did for 15 years and I know lots and lots of dogs that do but my point is, that if you start you need to know you'll probably end up with him there forever. (our last dog lost SO much hair it became a a problem and that is the only reason I didn't want to go down that road again).
Humphrey slept in his crate (actually its a very large transport box, so we use it in the car aswell), from day 1 so he always associated it with a place to rest and chill out - I don't know if that made any difference (?).  (As he got older, we took the door off and it stands next to his normal bed, so more often than not he still sleeps in it at night.).
I'm wondering if Barley maybe hasn't made that association? Perhaps he just sees it as a place where he gets fed but then doesn't really understand why he's still in there? Might it help to put a cover over it ? Maybe a blanket - not so its completely blacked out but just to make it a bit darker, - like a little den, to encourage him to chill out a bit.
There are lots of others on here who've also used crates for longer periods in the day, so maybe someone will be along soon with some advice that'll help you further.!
Keep us posted and best of luck!

[Clawson77]

We are fine with Barley sleeping on the bed, as this was common practice for the Cocker we lost a few weeks back however, with the caveat he understands when he needs to get down.. This set up worked really well with Benji and I see no reason for it not to work again.

I have spoken to my other half about putting a blanket over the crate and I think just by the process of elimination this is something we will need to try, as he will need to be caged at his grandparents just as their Cocker is.

 

[Briggo09]

I used a crate in my boys early puppy days when I wasn't in the house and at night times. It took a little while to get him used to it- I basically set it up in the kitchen with a blanket over the top- a bed and some blanket insides and the first couple of weeks his access was limited to the kitchen only. Gave a lot of treats when he was laying in there, would close the door when I was around- and done this for short periods- when he cried left him and when he was quiet let him out- slowly increasing the time he was in there and would leave the room etc... All slowly building it up. I think I was quite lucky as he never minded it apart from his first night- I know of others on these forums who have had big problems with separation anxiety and maybe they will be along to offer more advice if he continues to dislike it.

[daw]

I'm really anti-crate for dogs unless it's for safe transport or recovery from illness/surgery. I've seen such sad cases of dogs in rescue driven to distraction and self harm by them. And I've seen young dogs crated to house train them with horrible urinary infections from trying not to go.
And it can be much mentally worse for some dogs than others...because each has a unique personality. Some are accepting and laid back- others never will be. All I can say is if your puppy is anti-crate you can try to go down the making it a nice place route, gradually seeing if he will settle. Never letting him become distressed in there or thinking its a punishment. People who are pro crate often say 'It's his den, he loves it/feels safe etc but if that were the case why have a locked door?

You say he will have to crated at your relatives? I'd still explore  other options. Are there safe places he can learn to like? Or what about baby gates on a utility room, etc?  Our current rescue dog was terrified of confinement when he arrived- also scared of/ aggressive to visitors. We stripped out our (brand new  ) summer house, put his box in there during the day which he has free access to  and if he does need to be 'banged up' that's where. He's content and will settle. I'm not saying any plan is without it's downside. But it was for us not him.

And you can always get more cane furniture on ebay.  It's remarkably good value.   

[Lulabear]

Hi to you. With all my dogs I've crated until around 5/6 months and it's worked well. Never a punishment. Always made it a nice safe place. With puppies I've found they can get overtired so it's a good time out place for us both!  And now it also gives my older dog some space too. It's been a while since I last went through this as my older lab is now nearly 11 so having recently acquired little orange roan Cooper age 11 weeks today it's like I know nothing!!!  The breeder had him in a bed in a pen with training pads down so I bought the same but I've put a small cosy crate (just with his bed. A t shirt with my smell on it. A toy and at night that warm snuggle bottle which has blanket breeder gave me wrapped around it for night time comfort). He has weed on the pads a couple of times in the night although I've got up twice a night for the last few nights to take him out to. I haven't needed to close the crate door as the pen has contained him. I am hoping that thus will also help create a nice experience of the crate for him although he does sometimes while in the pen too. Being cuddled up with someone or roaming free nay we'll be nicer but I'm sticking with it!  It's great to learn ideas from everyone else! Thank you...

[Clawson77]

Currently Barley (also an orange roan) has a nice bed, one of my old t-shirts, 2 toys, one of which is a string of rubber sausages hanging safely from the top of the crate and finally a Kong filled with cooked chicken breast. He's literally just settled down after 25-30 mins of whining, so I will leave him for a while to see how he gets on.

I'm not sure where I stand on crates, I absolutely get the pro's and cons and would love to have the little guy with me all the time however, this just isn't feasible.

Oh, he's just snapped out of his sleep and started again..

[l3w15t]

Hi.  I was really anti crate (I never did with my old retreivers), however a friend gave us a crate and said they'd had a great experience with their cocker (who to be fair is very very very placid).  I left it in the utility with her blanket and toy in with the door open for a week.  She was locked in the utility room at night so it was her choice whether to sleep in a basket or the crate.  I often find now she freely goes in and out and we can use the crate to help her calm down and when we need to do laundry...!  I am definitely a convert as she seems much much calmer now we us it as part of her routine.  I guess though it depends on your home and set-up.

[BonnieScot]

My first experience of using a crate was with Bonnie, and she took to it really well. Until about two months ago, she slept in there all night too. It was great for enforcing a bit of rest when she was over-tired but desperate not to miss out, she ate her breakfast in there to give the cats peace, and it made toilet training a dream. We covered it with a blanket too to make sure there was no draught (the crate was near the back door), and she'd happily take toys in there and I truly think she thought of it as her bed/den. She would be hilarious when I took it out back to clean.

We gave the crate away when she stopped using it, and she's been remarkably trustworthy with freedom to roam downstairs in the night and when we're out. And now that she has a big girl bark, I'm grateful for the additional guard dog effect (albeit any intruder would get covered with wiggles and kisses).

If I was to get another pup, I'd probably get another crate and do the same again. But the longer term goal for me was to let her have the run of the downstairs (but not beds...yet...)

[Geordietyke]

I can totally understand a dog not liking a crate.  Both my previous cockers simply would not use one during the day (although they slept in a smaller version next to our bed overnight  They'd scream and whine, as well as toilet in there, making an awful mess each time.  No matter what I did to try and get them to accept it, it was a no-go and eventually I just had to bite the bullet and give them free reign downstairs (leading to our 2nd one destroying the wood of our front door  ).  However, my current pup Monty adores his crate and settled from day 1, he'll go in there for naps during the day (sometimes without the door locked) and sleeps overnight from midnight-6.30am without any noise (it is covered).  Eventually I'm sure he'll just have his bed in the kitchen when I can be sure he's not going to chew anything but until then, we are both happy with the crate.

[BobnDot]

Milly's always had the run of the house but usually resides in her little den under a table alongside Dot's chair in the living room during the day or on her bed in the corner of our bedroom at night. She jumps up onto the bed for a cuddle as we're getting into bed then gets down and goes to her bed for the rest of the night.

Chaz's breeder introduced him to a crate overnight a week before we picked him up and he's had his crate in our kitchen ever since. The door to the crate was removed when he was about six months old and he comes and goes in the crate as he likes. The crate is covered to keep it nice and dark so that he can have a sleep in the rear of the crate when he likes but he also likes to rest his chin where the door used to be and survey the goings on in his kitchen domain and keep a close eye on the movements of anything potentially edible 

They both get a late evening trip into the garden and then get a gravy bone each to take to their beds. Milly heads upstairs to her bed while Chaz takes his into his crate. We use an old towel to cover the front of his crate overnight although he can easily push it out of the way if he wants to come out overnight. Once he's gone to bed for the night we're able to walk in and out of the kitchen without him being disturbed and we then shut the kitchen door and turn off the lights before we retire.

Bob.

[Clawson77]

** Progress Update **

Wednesday came around and with Barley still unhappy with using his crate to sleep in, we needed to change tact.. We put the crate in the kitchen and whilst we were at work gave him the run of the kitchen, with his grandparents breaking up the time he was spending along by picking him up for a few hours in the morning and allowing him to spend a few hours with their 2.5 year old show cocker.

This morning I'm working from home and have needed to crate him with the door shut for 30mins or so, he whined for 10 mins, then settled down nicely. I'm taking this as a win as it's huge progress from where he was on Tuesday 

[bizzylizzy]

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