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Author Topic: They're All Related...  (Read 5535 times)

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Offline Curtisio

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They're All Related...
« on: August 02, 2005, 03:10:45 PM »
I believe from Sue (Dunton4) that it was Jane S has said in the past 'that if you go back far enough all cockers are related'

Well, It looks like they are.

After about a months research and loads of help from you guys, I have compiled one single tree which has all of those who have posted their cockers pedigrees to me on it.

The Parti and Working trees linked a few weeks ago - and so did the Solid and Parti trees - but I didn't notice until today, when I was double checking that their were no incorrect repeated names on the solid tree. When I came accross ' Colour Me Blue Of Classicway And Quettadene' who appears on both Solid and Parti trees.

So now there is one single tree... (attached) Unless I've made a huge b@lls up  :unsure:  :lol:

Which  includes...

ACORAH Doegun Phil ~ Acorah
ALFIE Rosbercon Starblazer ~ Suki1964
BAILEY Barrondon Golden Nugget ~ Dianne32
BAILEY Whinburn Double Top ~ Elisa
BELLA Jayzander Jam Sandwich ~ ~Jilly~
BUDDY Jolandene Blazing Star (parti/working)~ annette
BUTTY Lynwater Buttons ~ Gilly
CHARLIE Abilou Starlight of Lunetta ~ Flossysmum
CRYSTAL Molkara Elise ~ Emily
FLOSSY Lourisma Lunetta ~ Flossysmum
JURRA Dragonmead Kilmalcolm ~ taliska
KYRO Chavez Stictly Country ~ Curtisio
LIBBY Dragonmead Blue Princess ~ Stueymac
MIA Innocent Beliefs ~ PandaUK
MIKEY Ruscoe Raven (working) ~ miche
MOLO Islanza Muscadet ~ IWLass
PEPSI Wensum Prada ~ LoveCatz
RUBEN Ryanside Bacchus The God ~ Gill66
SWEEP Kenwu Blue Sweep ~ Stueymac
TALISKA Sandvika Taliska ~ taliska
TILLY Lujesa Jodeci ~ Dunton 4
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Offline Jane S

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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2005, 11:00:35 PM »
Quote
I believe from Sue (Dunton4) that it was Jane S has said in the past 'that if you go back far enough all cockers are related'

If you go back even further, you're supposed to be able to trace all Cockers back to one dog, Obo (born in the 1870s) who was the predecessor of all modern day Cockers (not that he resembled what we think of as a Cocker as he was very long & low to the ground)

Jane
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Jane

Offline taliska

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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 03:41:01 PM »
thanks again for doing all this I find it fasinating, I'm not sure how far you can go with it but it would be great to fill in more of the gaps, I know a lot of blue roans come from the bitcon kenel, though I seem to recall the "of ware" being one of the earliest, it would be good to trace back to the "of ware" was it Tracy Witch of Ware that won crufts back in late 20's or am I talking rubbish.   ;)
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Offline Curtisio

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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 03:52:46 PM »
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thanks again for doing all this I find it fasinating, I'm not sure how far you can go with it but it would be great to fill in more of the gaps, I know a lot of blue roans come from the bitcon kenel, though I seem to recall the "of ware" being one of the earliest, it would be good to trace back to the "of ware" was it Tracy Witch of Ware that won crufts back in late 20's or am I talking rubbish.   ;)
[snapback]139322[/snapback]

'Tracy Witch of Ware' was in 1948 & 1950 and 'LUCKYSTAR OF WARE' in 30 & 31.

It would be good to fill in more gaps, so if anyone has any of them, PM me and I'll add them in... :D
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Offline *Jay*

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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 06:04:27 PM »
I've just got round to tracing Disneys ancestors for putting into my database. His G G G Grandad is Sh Ch Bitcon Troubador and  from him I have got as far back as the 'of Wares'. Unfortunately, google won't allow me to go back any further so I'm now moving on to Lynwater Tiger Lilly ;)
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Penel

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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 09:29:58 PM »
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(not that he resembled what we think of as a Cocker as he was very long & low to the ground)

like a working cocker then ?
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Offline Jane S

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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 10:26:21 PM »
No nothing like a Working Cocker -he was 10" high with very short legs :lol: If anything, he looked more Sussex Spaniel which is not surprising as I think one of his parents was a Sussex

Jane
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Offline Magic Star

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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 11:07:27 PM »
Indie along woth most blue roans has Bitcom in her ped, heres hers if it helps you :)

Heres Indies

SC CH/ IR SH CH WILHOLME MYSTIC MEMORY OF WILMERELLA
MOSSDEW MURPHY'S LAW
BITCOM DARK ANGEL
SC CH CILLEINE ECHELON
WILHOLME WEATHERGIRL OF MOSSDEW
SH CH BITCOM TROUBADOR
BITCOM BLUE MAGIC
HIGHTREES SWEET TALK OF LOCHRANZA
STYVEHALE STARDEW OF CILLEINE
SH CH DEARNWOOD STAR VENTURE
WILHOLME WALKING IN RYTHMN
MISTFALL MEDDLER
SH CH BITCOM MOONLIGHT
OUIANE SILVER BUCK
SH CH BITCOM SHY TALK
CH SCOLYS STARDUSTER
HIGHTREES NONE SWEETER
STYVECHALE STORMCLOUD
SH CH STYVECHALE STARTIME
SH CH LEABANK LEVITY
SCOLYS SILVER CYGNET
SH CH WILHOLME WRANGLER
RIVERMART KISMET OF WILHOLME
BITCON SILBER REBEL
SC CH MISFALL MOD INDIGO
BITCON AFTER DARK
BITCOM BLUE CASCADE
DAN CH OUIANE HALF A DOLLAR
OUIANE WELCOMR
MISTFALL MEDDLER
BITCOM ARTISTS MODEL

MUMS SIDE

JASMIN LUCKY STAR
CH WILMERELLA KINGS LEGEND
PRINCESS TANYA
SH CH PALACECRAIG GO WEST
WILHOLME SOURCERESS OF WILMERELLA
CHARTERWOOD OTIS
PRINCESS SHERRY
GLOWHILL APOLLO SEVEN
PALACECRAIG BE FAIR
SH CH BLUE DEVIL OF WILHOLME
WILHOLME WEATHER THE STORM
TAVIN COOL MIST AT CHARTERWOOD
CHARTERWOOD ORCHID
CHOYA CAPTION
CYNDI BLACK MAGIC BORKLUND
SH CH DEARNEWOOD STAR VENTURE
GLOWHILL GALAXY
PALACECRAIG VAGABOND
PALACECRAIG TOUCH AND GO
WILHOLME WIDE BOY
SAPHIRE GIRL
SH CH WILHOLME WRANGLER
WILHOLME WISPA
LYNWATER SULTAN AT TAVIN
TAVIN SUMMER FLOWER
TOBY MIDNIGHT RUNNER OF CHARTERWOOD
CHARTERWOOD ORANGE LADY
JIMISSON GREASEPOINT
SHEREE SOLITAIR
RISK OF KNOWLEMERE
COCHAN OF BORTH

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Penel

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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2005, 09:35:19 AM »
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No nothing like a Working Cocker -he was 10" high with very short legs

erm lots of working cockers look like that !!!!!  Hattie is quite short, with short legs and a long body !!!  there's one that lives near here too - he looks like a Sussex spaniel, but smaller head, and he's black and white.
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Offline Jane S

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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2005, 11:55:57 AM »
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..erm lots of working cockers look like that !!!!!  Hattie is quite short, with short legs and a long body !!!  there's one that lives near here too - he looks like a Sussex spaniel, but smaller head, and he's black and white.
[snapback]139433[/snapback]
I'll see if I can find a photo of Obo & post it here for you to see. Are there really 10" Working Cockers around? Makes a mockery of the claim that the show Cockers have got too tiny to work if there are :lol:

Jane
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Offline Curtisio

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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2005, 02:49:35 PM »
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Indie along woth most blue roans has Bitcom in her ped, heres hers if it helps you :)

[snapback]139418[/snapback]

What is Indie posh name?
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Offline Babylonian

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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2005, 06:06:12 PM »
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Quote
No nothing like a Working Cocker -he was 10" high with very short legs

erm lots of working cockers look like that !!!!!  Hattie is quite short, with short legs and a long body !!!  there's one that lives near here too - he looks like a Sussex spaniel, but smaller head, and he's black and white.
[snapback]139433[/snapback]

Very long bodied working cocker here too!  :lol:
Someone remarked to my husband that "your spaniel is very long",
Ron replied jokingly "Yes, he's half sausage dog!",
the woman said "Ohh never mind, he's still a lovely dog!"...
  :lol:
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Penel

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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2005, 06:17:49 PM »
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Makes a mockery of the claim that the show Cockers have got too tiny to work if there are 

some working folk like them small - they can get under stuff more easily !!!  :lol:   I think the abundance of coat is more likely a reason why show cockers aren't worked ...
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Offline *-Nikki-*

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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2005, 06:25:54 PM »
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Quote
..erm lots of working cockers look like that !!!!!  Hattie is quite short, with short legs and a long body !!!  there's one that lives near here too - he looks like a Sussex spaniel, but smaller head, and he's black and white.
[snapback]139433[/snapback]
I'll see if I can find a photo of Obo & post it here for you to see. Are there really 10" Working Cockers around? Makes a mockery of the claim that the show Cockers have got too tiny to work if there are :lol:

Jane
[snapback]139450[/snapback]

Would love to see a pic, Jane ;) . I'm sure it will be very interesting :) !
I was under the impression that working folk liked their cockers big too :unsure: …as the ‘scan man’ wanted a cocker 2 work of us because our Teen is a big girl :lol:  :blink: .  
Nikki x
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Offline Jane S

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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2005, 11:09:36 PM »
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Would love to see a pic, Jane ;) . I'm sure it will be very interesting :) !
[snapback]139501[/snapback]
I've found a pic in Peggy Grayson's book but it's very small & not very clear so will probably not scan well but I'll have a go tomorrow. I think Working Cockers vary in size as much as their show brethren but it's an oft repeated criticism that modern show Cockers have got too small etc etc (the implication being this means they could not work, forgetting about the coat for the moment which can alway be cut off ;)) but if some working owners actually prefer a small dog in some situations, then it can't affect their working ability that much :) It's interesting looking at old photos of Cockers, seeing how they went from these very small short legged dogs in the late 19th Century to much longer legged dogs in the 1920s & 30s (before the breed split into two types) - well, interesting to me anyway :lol:

Jane
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