A different kind of biting...

[Digger]

Hi all. Apologies for posting on such a regular topic but I still remain very concerned about my bitey pup.
  Inca is now 7 months old and the biting 'attacks' and general nipping have decreased although not stopped.
 I am now at an all time low because yesterday and now this morning I have had two different kinds of snapping. This morning I told her to get off the back of the sofa. She wouldn't, so in the vein of making sure you follow through, I went to move her off and she went for me! Didn't get me but looked really nasty. I put her in her pen and left the room for ten minutes.
How can you tell if that is aggression? It looks like aggressive behaviour to me.
I don't remember my other dog ever doing anything like that. I never contained him in any way- never needed to. He was also a spaniel. Just because it's a cocker, does it get away with it??

It's so depressing. Owning a dog should be a pleasure. At the moment all I seem to be doing is constantly analysing her challenging behaviour and trying to do the right thing.
I have had her from 9 weeks and done everything you should. She has been treated fairly and kindly. We knew nothing about dogs when we got our Springer 15 years ago and did all the things you shouldn't and he was a kind and gentle dog in all situations.
 This one has had the best of everything and nothing but reward based training and she is like this. It makes me think we are raising a spoiled brat! I got a puppy, fully aware of the hard work involved, but so that we knew the history and could be as sure as you ever can that it would be a safe dog. I can't believe I now find myself writing this on a forum!
I would like to know if there is a point where this kind of behaviour is deemed aggressive rather than teenage dog behaviour or if I am somehow disillusioned about dogs!
Sorry to rant.
(Again)

[Mari]

You are not raising a spoiled brat These are my theories on what could be going on:

You are possibly raising a dog with a common behaviour issue in spaniels: Resource guarding. And if that is the case then it is not due to training, but just a problem some of them get. And the good news is that if managed correctly is possible to get control of.

The solution is surprising. Because we tend to think in terms of not letting them get away with bad behaviour. But when you understand where resource guarding comes from in the dogs mind then it all becomes more logical to take a step back and retrain them rather then physically forcing them. Because using force (however gentle and fair in our mind) will escalate the problem. I am no expert but I know many in here have dealt with it so there are plenty of advice to be had. I can also recommend the book "Mine! A guide to resource guarding" for all dog owners to read.

If it only happens on the sofa then you could just block access to it. Or better yet train Inca to jump up and down on command by using plenty of positive reinforcements. Training her to wait before jumping on the sofa could also help. If you do have to remove her physically then it is better to have a leash on her so you can safely move her not risking her snapping at you.

In addition to this I would train handling, just in case this is not resource guarding but an issue with being handled. Use positive reinforcement to make sure she is comfortable being handled and touched and pushed and pulled in different situations. If you are at all insecure and feel afraid then a behaviourist could help. Never take risks. But we can all benefit from training our dogs to be comfortable with lifting, gentle pushing and adjusting their posture. Your vet will also thank you in the future for a dog that is happy to be handled.

Another possible reason for her reaction is that some dogs just want to be left alone when they are resting and will communicate this by growling or snapping. If this is the issue, then teaching her to go to her crate or bed when she wants to be left alone could be the answer. Some are just grumpy when thay are sleepy and that's fine, but then they need to learn to withdraw to their "safe place" when wanting to be left alone.

All of the above are issues you can resolve by continuing to use reward based training. You have probably done everything right already just that she has some extra challenges you need to add to the normal dog training. I don't know if you feel I am correct with any of my theories, but don't be to discouraged there are trainers and behaviourists that can help you if it gets to challenging.

[Ben's mum]

Sorry you are struggling, you are right it should be enjoyable but sometimes feels such hard work, I remember feeling that way with Ben for quite a long while.   
I agree with Mari, it sounds very like guarding behaviour having experience it myself but I suppose you need to bear in mind we can't see what is happening.   Ben was slightly guardy mainly over food but also about the chair or settee.  We had him from 8 weeks and like you did lots of training.  To be honest I didn't know much about guarding then and didn't have COL, but my feelings with Ben were that I could 'insist' he got down from a chair, I could even physically move him because I was so much bigger than him but it was much easier and relaxing to find alternative solutions eg I would open the fridge door - guaranteed to have him come running - end result dog off the settee with no confrontation.  It worked for me and never escalated into anything worse. Sometimes you can just over think it.

Harry however coming as a rescue has more serous guarding issues which needed handling very differently, and I guess if you feel this is the problem you may need to think about getting some help or advice from a behaviourist.   

It does get easier honestly and it really is all worth it in the end   

[ips]

Never experienced this guarding behavior but it sounds hard work

[Digger]

Thank you for your reply Mari.

On the whole, I try to ignore irritating household behaviour as I do see that from a dog's point of view, they don't see any difference between for instance playing with a cushion and playing with a toy. I am not precious about my house and I let a lot of stuff go because I know she will grow out of it. However, on this occasion Inca was digging a hole in the sofa! That is why I asked her to get off.
 She knows what off means as she has has thousands of treats for doing it in the past. She just wouldn't do it. Goes without saying she wasn't resting at the time. She is not at all aversive to touch- she is quite happy to be touched anywhere and actually likes being picked up if you need to so I don't think it's that.
We are aware that cockers are a bit prone to guarding so have always made a point of never taking stuff off her and if she does take something she shouldn't then we swap it for something high value. She is always happy for us to be around her food/ toys so on and has never shown any issues there.
 I think she just didn't like it because I was spoiling her fun!. She has always been bitey but I am really concerned that if it continues into adulthood we could end up with a snappy adult dog. I just don't know if this is normal behaviour for a teenager of this breed.  They do seem to have a lot of issues.
Thank you for your suggestions- We will keep them all in mind. I am praying that she is just having a bad week... 

[Digger]

Ben's mum- I just read your nice post. Thank you so much and yes the distraction is probably a
good way to deal with it. God I do need that hug thankyou haha! This pup is getting me down at the moment. ( currently curled up on my lap..??!!?  ) Honestly what a rollercoaster!
Did Ben grow out of this kind of thing then? I do hope she is still at an age where there is hope that she will...
Tomorrow's another day..Some sunshine would help!!!

[Mari]

Ben's mum had the best answer! Why overthink when a distraction is so much easier! Brilliant!

Sounds like you are on top of everything already, Digger. Some cockers have issues, many do not If it's any consolation, my friend had a large akita who didn't entirely stop biting until he was at least a year. When he got frustrated or hyper, he would chomp down on her backside, and she would be bruised for days. He is now an adult and has the sweetest temper of any dog ever. He is safe around children and an absolute gentleman to everyone he meets. Of course she couldn't ignore the biting anymore when he was an adolescent dog and not a puppy anymore. So she would tell him to behave with a very loud voice and use a leash to restrain him if needed.

I used to do only positive reinforcement training theory in all situations. Clickertraining was the only way. Even the command "no" was trained positively. But to be honest I have adjusted my way of being a dog owner with time. All training I do is still  reward based. But in day to day life I sometimes give a very stern and not at all clickertrained "ENOUGH". Because in my opinion cockers are best trained with positive reinforcements, but they do sometimes get that naughty defiant look in their very clever faces. And I believe most of them can handle us putting our foot down just like we would with two-legged children I believe it's important to rule out guarding and insecurities before getting stern with them as cockers to have some weaknesses there. But if I am sure my cocker knows what I am asking and she is not insecure or has any issues, then I will raise my voice. I very rarely have to, and when I do she snaps out of naughty mode and is quickly rewarded with praise and cuddles.

[Leo0106]

Ohhh Digger. I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling.
You've had some great advice so far so I won't bombard you with too much more but please be reassured that your hard work will pay off.

The most vital thing I ever learnt is to never tackle a situation such as moving him from a certain place without a treat  OR (in the interest of not treating the wrong thing) if you can ignore the behaviour... then do... rather than tackling it... an example of this was Leo and counter surfing.. He was AWFUL! initially I just pushed him away everytime he jumped up the counter.. some nights he would be sooo persistent and the fight to stop him doing it eventually resulted in him doing exactly what you said inca did... except Leo would snarl or snap and THEN go into full puppy attack!
Now if he jumps at the counter, I walk away from the counter, when all 4 paws are on the floor I throw kibble at my feet to reward the fact he wasn't jumping up.
Similarly I can never dare to reach into the back seat while Leo is sat there to unattach his harness. I ALWAYS  need a good substance otherwise I get a growl and a snap. 


I know it is so difficult and you obviously love her so much. I can honestly say I know what you're going through and if you stick at it she will come out of this! It might just take longer than the norm... Leo's 16 months nearly and still not quite there.

Stay strong

[Digger]

Hi again Mari and thanks for that update.
 I totally hear what you're saying! My cocker 'shouldn't' have any issues (certainly not due to upbringing anyway) but like you say some just do- it's knowing that's the tricky part.  My gut feeling is that mine is just very COCKY! She has so much confidence-with people and other dogs-she will approach anything and is more than happy to play with huge boisterous dogs. She is very tough. Even if she gets snarled at she won't back off. Not that she ever gets her teething with them..just me!! I'm hoping that maybe she's approaching her first season and feeling a bit cranky???..Well I can live in hope!....

[Digger]

Aw thanks Leo 
It's just so disappointing when this little creature you have tried so hard with acts like that! It does get you down a bit- you just think you're getting somewhere with one thing then there's something else to deal with!!!. Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh! 

Can you imagine if Inca and Leo had puppies? You could put ' bred for temperament mwahahaha' on the advert!

I do hope you are right and it passes with age.  If I survive that long..

Stay strong. Repeat daily. X
 

[Ben's mum]

If I am being honest Ben was always a really 'gobby' cocker - he always had much to much to say for himself 

What was most challenging for me was OH was brought up to 'show a dog who is boss' he would quite often say you can't let him get away with bad behaviour.  My reasoning was that dogs have very limited ways to tell you what they do and don't want.  From what I have read if a dog wants to bite you it will - no messing, and it won't miss.  So if there is growling, showing of teeth, grumbling then really they are just telling you something even though you might not want to hear what they are saying - the doggy equivalent of go away 

If you ignore the 'conversation' then what alternative do they have but to escalate into something a bit more tricky.  With Ben I soon figured out his triggers for guarding, some high value chews and bones - simple answer I just stopped buying them. The chair thing I always used distraction, another favourite to get his attention was to crouch on the floor with my back to him so he couldn't see what i was doing as if I had found something and say 'whats this' - he could never resist coming to see what I had found.   I really couldn't see the point of geting into conflict over something just to make him do what I wanted him to do.     My mum always said you catch more flies with honey than vinager!!!

Ben always grumbled a lot, he grumbled when we put his harness on, if we picked him up to go in the car or to cary him over a stile out walking, he would thrash his legs and grumble away he actually sounded quite feral  but it was all noise really and I knew him so well I could practically read his mind anyway.  I do seem to remeber Ben was about 1 before he stopped being really snappy and stroppy, then he became a delight, a complete cuddle monster and the love of my life    (but still grumbly!!)

I do need to suggest that the two things I found most helpful were whisky and chocolate   

[BonnieScot]

Just a thought- is Inca spayed or due a season? Bon isn't aggressive or guardy but she sure is a weirdo either at season time or at phantom pregnancy time...

[Digger]

Hi Bonnie Scott- yeah I did wonder about the season thing. Inca is 7 months so may be leading up to her first one..? O
Pmt maybe?...

[Pearly]

Sounds like a typical teenager who is pushing boundaries to me  . How would you handle a teen that was having a stop because you’d asked them to clean their bedroom?  It’s almost exactly the same way to deal with Inca.....

You need to be clear about what is and isn’t acceptable.  Use exclusion and time outs for undesired behaviour and reward for good.  She also needs to be treated as a dog - for some dogs being allowed on a settee becomes their settee......others are not in the slightest bothered if they are on or not!  Since Inca has appeared to guard the settee she should have to earn her way on by behaving the way you expect her to - I personally wouldn’t let her in the living area let alone on the settee until her behaviour moderates.

Does Inca have a set routine each day?  This may also help.  She’s also still very young and should be sleeping most of the day - just like a teenager that has been at school all week, stayed up late then has a strop on a Saturday 😉. Bad temper and irritability generally go with over tiredness or boredom.....how much training do you do with Inca?

I’ve written on here many times about Pearl, who at 9 months old had me in tears with her biting/lunging.  That’s partly the reason we started Gundog training and now have 4 Cockers 

Honestly, you are not alone, just unlucky that you have a dog that will take you on more of a learning curve.  On a plus side, you will have a much stronger bond with Inca than most owners will ever have!

Good top re: house lead or line. 

Jayne
X

[Ben's mum]

I agree wholeheartedly with Pearly about the bond you have being stronger