Stud Dogs

[mark smith]

Hi

Can anyone give me advice on breeding my Blue Roan with a Solid cocker.

are there any reason this would not be advised?

The owner of the solid cocker stud has also given me details of another breeder with parti colour studs which I am waiting for her to call me back.


thanks

[snapback]151735[/snapback]

hi my advise woudl be try to avoid mixing solids and parti colour as has been mentioned you could end up with miss marked dogs however if your blue does have poor eye colour i.e light colour to improve this you would need to breed with a black dog with parti in its pedigree you can get its history from the kennel club as they hold all this info. but any puppies produced sshould be bred to thier own i.e soilid pups to solid next and parti pups to parti to stop miss marking
mark

[Jane S]

...however if your blue does have poor eye colour i.e light colour to improve this you would need to breed with a black dog with parti in its pedigree ...
mark

[snapback]154035[/snapback]

I haven't heard of this before to be honest. To improve on light eyes in a particolour, you'd choose a parti stud dog with good, dark eyes, preferably with no light eyes in the near ancestry. Eye colour is inherited like any other characteristic & light eyes are known to crop up in some lines but I can't see any reason why a solid black would be any better a choice than a dark-eyed particolour. I've seen quite a few solids with lighter than desirable eyes so it's not something you only see in partis

Jane

[mark smith]

...however if your blue does have poor eye colour i.e light colour to improve this you would need to breed with a black dog with parti in its pedigree ...
mark

[snapback]154035[/snapback]

I haven't heard of this before to be honest. To improve on light eyes in a particolour, you'd choose a parti stud dog with good, dark eyes, preferably with no light eyes in the near ancestry. Eye colour is inherited like any other characteristic & light eyes are known to crop up in some lines but I can't see any reason why a solid black would be any better a choice than a dark-eyed particolour. I've seen quite a few solids with lighter than desirable eyes so it's not something you only see in partis

Jane

[snapback]154038[/snapback]

i agree you dont only get it in parti colours however because there is alot less chocloate in solids they dont tend to have the light eye that chocolates give the light eyes you find in solids are through incorrect breeding with solid and parti

[Jane S]

i agree you dont only get it in parti colours however because there is alot less chocloate in solids they dont tend to have the light eye that chocolates give the light eyes you find in solids are through incorrect breeding with solid and parti

[snapback]154049[/snapback]

I agree liver/chocolate in the pedigree can give light eyes but there are plenty of particolour lines without the liver gene so why not pick a parti dog from these lines rather than a solid? I can't think of too many successful parti breeders who would go out & use a solid stud dog if they come across a problem with light eyes - no need to really

Jane

[mark smith]

i agree you dont only get it in parti colours however because there is alot less chocloate in solids they dont tend to have the light eye that chocolates give the light eyes you find in solids are through incorrect breeding with solid and parti

[snapback]154049[/snapback]

I agree liver/chocolate in the pedigree can give light eyes but there are plenty of particolour lines without the liver gene so why not pick a parti dog from these lines rather than a solid? I can't think of too many successful parti breeders who would go out & use a solid stud dog if they come across a problem with light eyes - no need to really

Jane

[snapback]154051[/snapback]

you misunderstand me i also agree to avoid mixing parti and solid however i was answering the first question like you i would look for a good parti dog to stud as we are in the situation to do so she is not . It is not a bad thing to mix breeding though poor eye colour is in partis more than solids this is not the only thing i was just using this as one situation im sure as a cocker breeder you carnt say no never breed solid and parti because it will cause major problems the only problem it causes is mis marking caused due to re mixing off spring which has come about by some well known breeders as im sure you are aware a pedigree needs to be looked at carefully before breeding

[Jane S]

you misunderstand me i also agree to avoid mixing parti and solid however i was answering the first question like you i would look for a good parti dog to stud as we are in the situation to do so she is not . It is not a bad thing to mix breeding though poor eye colour is in partis more than solids this is not the only thing i was just using this as one situation im sure as a cocker breeder you carnt say no never breed solid and parti because it will cause major problems the only problem it causes is mis marking caused due to re mixing off spring which has come about by some well known breeders as im sure you are aware a pedigree needs to be looked at carefully before breeding

[snapback]154058[/snapback]

I don't think I misunderstood you Mark You specifically advised someone that if they had a blue bitch with light eyes then they "would need to use" a solid when this advice doesn't really hold true I haven't found light eyes to be a major problem in our partis over the many years we have been breeding but then we have generally avoided the lines with liver/chocolate due to concerns over PRA. Yes of course I am aware that pedigrees need to be looked at carefully before breeding and the original poster has already been given that advice if you read the whole thread!

Jane

[mark smith]

you misunderstand me i also agree to avoid mixing parti and solid however i was answering the first question like you i would look for a good parti dog to stud as we are in the situation to do so she is not . It is not a bad thing to mix breeding though poor eye colour is in partis more than solids this is not the only thing i was just using this as one situation im sure as a cocker breeder you carnt say no never breed solid and parti because it will cause major problems the only problem it causes is mis marking caused due to re mixing off spring which has come about by some well known breeders as im sure you are aware a pedigree needs to be looked at carefully before breeding

[snapback]154058[/snapback]

I don't think I misunderstood you Mark You specifically advised someone that if they had a blue bitch with light eyes then they "would need to use" a solid when this advice doesn't really hold true I haven't found light eyes to be a major problem in our partis over the many years we have been breeding but then we have generally avoided the lines with liver/chocolate due to concerns over PRA. Yes of course I am aware that pedigrees need to be looked at carefully before breeding and the original poster has already been given that advice if you read the whole thread!

Jane

[snapback]154092[/snapback]

ill agree to disagree cause we could go on forever let the others  make up their own minds its unfair to claim pra in chocolates this is a unproved fact

[Jane S]

ill agree to disagree cause we could go on forever let the others  make up their own minds its unfair to claim pra in chocolates this is a unproved fact

[snapback]154114[/snapback]

I'm not arguing for the sake of it Mark but will always correct something that is factually incorrect As for your comment about PRA in chocolate lines being unproven, I cannot believe that you are unaware of the well-known show-type liver/chocolates who have been proven to be either PRA carriers or PRA affected! As many of today's current breeding lines go back to these dogs, it makes sense to be prudent about using them, although of course it will be easier now we have the Optigen gene test. I gather you don't eye test so perhaps this is not something you have studied in depth.

Jane

[mark smith]

ill agree to disagree cause we could go on forever let the others  make up their own minds its unfair to claim pra in chocolates this is a unproved fact

[snapback]154114[/snapback]

I'm not arguing for the sake of it Mark but will always correct something that is factually incorrect As for your comment about PRA in chocolate lines being unproven, I cannot believe that you are unaware of the well-known show-type liver/chocolates who have been proven to be either PRA carriers or PRA affected! As many of today's current breeding lines go back to these dogs, it makes sense to be prudent about using them, although of course it will be easier now we have the Optigen gene test. I gather you don't eye test so perhaps this is not something you have studied in depth.

Jane

[snapback]154135[/snapback]

i am now optigen testing and hope that alot more people will do so and then it will be proven or not weather it is the chocolate gene until then it is not proven and as is only very few people have eye tests done you can not use this as your evidence come on be fair what you would have peole believe is that chocolates are the only colour that produce bad eyes and as you dont breed the colour would sound right be fair and wait until all the facts are in and we have a vast amount to results from all colours before knocking a colour

[kookie]

What is optigen testing. I have heard the name a few times now. I thought I was going the right thing when I had my girls eye tested, it was about 4 years ago, is this a different test?

[Emily]

you can find out about it here

[mark smith]

What is optigen testing. I have heard the name a few times now. I thought I was going the right thing when I had my girls eye tested, it was about 4 years ago, is this a different test?

[snapback]154155[/snapback]

hi karen www.optigen.com will give you all the info. on it . it is a dna test to see if you gogs has pra , is clear or is a carrier of it! your test would of told you if your dog had it but look on the website as i may be corrected

[kookie]

Thanks, I'm off for look now.

[Jane S]

i am now optigen testing and hope that alot more people will do so and then it will be proven or not weather it is the chocolate gene until then it is not proven and as is only very few people have eye tests done you can not use this as your evidence come on be fair what you would have peole believe is that chocolates are the only colour that produce bad eyes and as you dont breed the colour would sound right be fair and wait until all the facts are in and we have a vast amount to results from all colours before knocking a colour

[snapback]154138[/snapback]

Just to correct this obvious misunderstanding - I'm certainly not knocking any colour & we did breed liver/chocolate quite a few years ago to one of the stud dogs now known to be a PRA carrier. The reason I mentioned chocolate/liver specifically was because there is a very small gene pool for this colour in show lines and so all show-type dogs of this colour tend to go back to the same lines. I did not suggest for one minute that PRA is connected to the liver/chocolate colour gene - that would be quite silly But it does follow that in a limited gene pool with known carriers in the background that any breeder needs to be really careful when breeding for this particular colour. I'm really glad to hear you are now Optigen testing & hope you will send the results to The Cocker Club for publication in the Welfare Booklet

Jane

[Ulla R]

I did a mating with my red bitch to a blue roan dog (which is from mixed lines with almost every possible colour in the pedigree). The dog is a multi champion and has produced very nice puppies with both parti- and solid-girls. I did got four very nice puppies and the girls were mismarket when born, but both girls (now 12 weeks) are without white colour on the their face. The black girl has quite a lot of white on the chest but still it is ok. Now I have two possiblities: continue with my solid line and start to breed parties also. How facinating!

I don't know what is so bad in mixing these lines? If you get missmarked puppies you sell them to pethomes (most of them goes that way anyway.) It is a great way to freshen up the breed and maybe to make the temperaments better. It is only a colour. And that is the most unintressant thing in cocker in my point of view.



Bambi, at the age of 8 weeks (when se was born she had a very wide white stripe on her foreface and it has slowly disapeared when she has grown)

I will take a new picture of her when she comes here next weekend