Raw Feeding Again: and I'm not sorry!

[Nicola]

I've just given Henry his very first raw chicken wing!  He is currently lying outside on the grass trying to decide what to do with it!  Usually he's dying to come back inside and peers longingly through the french windows, but not now! Now as soon as I look like I'm coming outside, he picks up his wing straight away as if to say 'there's NO way you're having this back'!

I've mashed up the bones with a rolling pin.  Stupid question - will he eat the bones or just leave them?  Could he choke?

Henry should crunch up the bones with no problems, just don't listen to him do it if you're squeamish! 

[allym]

OMG! I'm now sitting watching him with a sense of panic!  How pathetic! God, I don't know how you BARF guys do it - I'd be a quivering wreck! 

Will this count as his evening meal? Or should I still feed him as normal?   

[Nicola]

Alfie is loving his BARF feeding and I think it's also proving that he's the most laid back dog ever, I gave him a chicken wing on Sunday to crunch on out in the garden and 5 minutes later he came trotting into the house with it and tried to jump onto my knee to enjoy it in comfort!  

He also had lamb ribs last week and when I reached down to pull them apart for him as he was having a bit of trouble he just lay there and started licking my hand and giving me cocker eyes  

The only thing he's had which he took away from us quick smart was a whole salmon head and frankly I was only too glad that he wanted to keep that one to himself  

All in all we love it, now that the first couple of weeks are behind us we're definite BARF converts here!

[allym]

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but is it normal to see blood in the wing?!  I've just popped out to check on progress and he doesn't seem to have actually eaten anything, but I can see a bit of blood...

[Claire]

You get used to it - everyone's a quivering wreck to begin with!  I'd say it counts as half his dinner, if he's fully grown.  So give him a little dinner later if he seems hungry - or another wing.

[Claire]

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but is it normal to see blood in the wing?!  I've just popped out to check on progress and he doesn't seem to have actually eaten anything, but I can see a bit of blood...

Yes you sometimes see a bit.  Nothing to worry about.

[Rhona W]

I've just weighed my boys. Reuben is 13kg and Casper is 14.4kg and they will be 7 months old on Sunday.
So do I feed them as puppies still (hence the huge amount according to Natures Menu!) 0r not? 
They are still growing at the minute and Reuben is just beginning to fill out. Casper has always been solid! 

[Nicola]

I've just weighed my boys. Reuben is 13kg and Casper is 14.4kg and they will be 7 months old on Sunday.
So do I feed them as puppies still (hence the huge amount according to Natures Menu!) 0r not? 
They are still growing at the minute and Reuben is just beginning to fill out. Casper has always been solid! 

I moved Alfie onto adult food at 6 months and I think his weight is just about perfect, he's in great condition. I've given him NM a few times and I used one pack split over two meals per day, which I actually thought was a wee bit too much but tbh I couldn't be bothered faffing around having a tiny bit left in one pack overnight and having to open a new one in the morning anyway and figure it out from there etc. so I just used one per day.

[Abby]

OKay, a few questions.

Clive is having them as his tea tonight (one down one to go). He has them a few times before but I watched him a bit more closely today. He did a lot of crunching and then seemed to swallow it whole. Does this sound okay? They don't last him long, that's for sure. Also, I left the skin on - should I?

The other thing is supplements - when you do BARF what do you add to the bones/offal/veg menu?

Figuring out my menus tonight (well, CLive's really) so I know what to buy 

[Abby]

OK - comments on my basic menu for Clive would be much appreciated.

350g a day (based on 2-3%).
weekly: 60% meaty bones, fish & eggs 15%, 10% offal & mince, fruit & veg (with supplements) 10%, treats 5%

Day 1 AM: Chicken wings  PM: Fish, eggs & veg
Day 2 AM: Lamb ribs  PM: Turkey mince & veg
Day 3 AM: Chicken wings  PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Day 4 AM: Oxtail  PM: Lamb ribs & veg
Day 5 AM: Chicekn wings  PM: fish, eggs & veg
Day 6 AM: Lamb ribs  PM: CHicken wings & veg
Day 7 AM: Oxtail  PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Plus  a couple of recreational bones a week

Does this look something like the right balance?

[DennyK]

OK - comments on my basic menu for Clive would be much appreciated.

350g a day (based on 2-3%).
weekly: 60% meaty bones, fish & eggs 15%, 10% offal & mince, fruit & veg (with supplements) 10%, treats 5%

Day 1 AM: Chicken wings  PM: Fish, eggs & veg
Day 2 AM: Lamb ribs  PM: Turkey mince & veg
Day 3 AM: Chicken wings  PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Day 4 AM: Oxtail  PM: Lamb ribs & veg
Day 5 AM: Chicekn wings  PM: fish, eggs & veg
Day 6 AM: Lamb ribs  PM: CHicken wings & veg
Day 7 AM: Oxtail  PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Plus  a couple of recreational bones a week

Does this look something like the right balance?

I'm interested in the experienced raw food people's opinions on this too.  I'm not giving as many eggs (so far, two a week) as Abby's list - would be good to know what others do & why.  Looks good to me overall though.

The only other things I'm adding are the slippery elm powder (for colitis - soothes the gut) and the "Keeper's Mix".  The latter is a kelp and alfalfa powder with added psyllium husk which is a great source of fibre (good for humans with IBS too!).  I chose this as it seemed to be the closest thing to the kelp stuff which dear old Kymythy talked about in her book on raw feeding.  It's rich in vitamins and minerals so I thought that it would "cover all the bases".  I mix it in with the blended veg or else with the mince when I'm feeding him mince.

One other thing: Pads has been drinking water like a lunatic since going onto BARF, whereas the books say they'll get more moisture from their food.  How have you found it?

I'm still trying to get the balance right between the mince and the meaty bones: I gave him too many bones at one point and he definitely got a bit constipated, but then a couple of meals of mince and then sardines and he was right as rain.

Denise

[Penel]

Those meals look great - probably more eggs than mine get - and more veg too - but you'll probably relax over time about that sort of thing !!! 
I dunno about Paddy drinking more - mine don't drink much..... keep an eye on that Denise...

[Abby]

I should have put 'egg' really 'cos I only meant for one on each occasion (4ish over the week). As you say Penel, I'll relax over time and not be so regimented about it

Clive had 2 chicken wings and an egg last night (his first!) and loved it. Licked the patio clean afterwards 

Another question: what do folks do when you take your dogs to visit other people's houses - we're going away for a couple of weekends soon. I suppose I could just have him on the burns again.

[Claire]

I give Ruby about 5 eggs a week.  The reason?  They're her favourite!   I give them with meals like mince of sardines where there is little or no bone in them, as egg shell serves the same purpose as bone - calcium-rich and poo-firming!

When I go to other people's houses, I take her meals out the freezer at home (they are all in pre-portioned by me into sandwich bags) put them in a big lunchbox with one of those frozen plastic gel block things you use in a cool box, and when I get there, I put the lunchbox in their fridge, and they can take one sandwich bag out each mealtime.  If it's longer than 3 days, I'd put a few in their freezer once we get there.

Last time I visited my mum's, she just bought some chicken wings (she already had eggs, fruit, veggies and tinned sardines/tuna in anyway) and we made up her meals as we went along.  It's actually easier than taking supplies of dog food - especially when you have to carry it on the train - as after all, they eat 'people' food on BARF so it's just the odd extra item that needs picking up at the supermarket.

Ruby doesn't drink more water either - less than she did whilst on dried food in fact.

[clairep4]

That looks like a pretty good menu to me. Here is what Bella gets - 10kg and fully grown:

Mon AM: 100g chicken (skinned by on the bone) plus veg pulp, PM: 50g beef mince
Tues AM: 150g breast of lamb, PM: cooked chicken or sausage as she's at agility so her meal is fed throughout the class as treats
Wed AM: 100g chicken plus veg, PM: 100g tripe and beef mix
Thurs AM: 150g breast of lamb, PM: 50g beef mince
Fri AM: 100g chicken plus veg, PM: 50g beef mince
Sat AM: tin of sardines and an egg, PM: spoonful of cottage cheese and 50g beef mince
Sun AM: 100g tripe/offal mix, PM: usually a bit of whatever roast we've had!

So she's usually on one egg a week, sometimes two, and two lots of tripe/offal, although the chicken usually comes with kidneys intact so she gets them as well now and then. For supplements I don’t do that much really, she either gets salmon oil or evening primrose oil most days, and keeper's mix when I remember it (probably once or twice a week).

I'm aiming for an overall amount of 1400g per week (2% of 10kg), which includes about 30g of treats per day - she's an active girl but puts weight on easily so we have to be quite careful with her.

We tend to give her naturediet if we take her away overnight.