Author Topic: Collar trouble  (Read 1708 times)

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Offline september

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Collar trouble
« on: September 01, 2007, 06:06:07 PM »
I'm hoping someone can offer advice or suggestions to a problem we have developing.

Roxy has worn a collar from around 9 weeks old.  We introduced it gradually and take it off when she is in her crate, she was also introduced to her lead about a week after, dragging it round first etc etc, as instructed in the perfect puppy book!

However in the last couple of week were are having problems getting her collar on and off.  She wont let you take her collar on or off or clip her lead on.  She tries to bite your hands.  I can't understand why as nothing bad has ever happened to her when weraing it or anything like that so i'm not sure where it has come from.  We put her collar on while she is eating as she is distracted and doesn't try and bite and to get her lead on we ask her to 'sit' and 'wait' and hold a treat out and use one hand to clip the lead on.  This can take several attempts as she still sometimes tries to bite so we have to start over.

Its also a problem because you can't just quickly clip the lead on which worries me when out as I have just started to let her off the lead but want to know I can get her back on quickly if the need arrises. Its also really hard to clip a lead on a tiny collar with one hand!  :huh:

We are trying to build it up by just touching her neck and offering a treat and then just touching the collar and giving a treat to try and get her used to it.

She never growls or anything just bites, they could be puppy mouthing bites rather than bite bites as she is a very mouth puppy?

Any idea why this could be bothering her or ideas of a better way to help her as I realise she is doing it for a reason.


Offline cazza

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2007, 09:28:58 PM »
Sounds to me like she ids frightened of having her collar on - can't offer much advice but hope someone can

Only thing i could say is to use a slip lead to put on when she is distracted as you can di this whilst waliking past

lots of praise and treats and work up to changing to a collar and lead

Personaly if it were me I would get a one 2 one with a behavourist to see the reactions and give you proper advice  ;)

hope someone else can help better than me  ;)

Offline Mari

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2007, 09:47:47 PM »
I have a book that describes a method for getting the dog to accept the collar without a fuss. I used this method on my dog because she would jump around so much that I could not get the collar on her. I can't comment on the biting because I don't have enough experience with dogs (are you sure she is not play biting?), but I can say that this method worked wonders on my overly eager puppie.

Get ready to go outside, tell your dog to sit/stay next to you by the door. Take out the collar and sit down to put it on your dog.
If she makes a fuss you stand up, say "oh well" and walk away. No reaction, just leave as if you couldn't care less. Go sit down with a book or the tv or something.
After a few moments (not too long) you try again. Go cheerfully to the door, try to get the collar on. If she does not sit calmly, you say "oh well" and walk away again.
Repeat until your dog sits still long enough for you to put on collar and leash. Try to be fast in the beginning.
When you succeed you give her lots of praise and a treat and hurry outside as a reward, make it extra fun to go outside.

This worked on my dog because she loves to go outside. And she is smart enough to realise that I won't go outside with her unless she sits still for the 10sec it takes to put on the leash. I felt awful for walking away from her without giving her the reward (the walk), but they are clever dogs, so she understood after three or four times. If she gets hyper now and I can't get the collar on, all I have to do is stand up and say "oh..." and she'll sit down before I finish my "well"  :blink:

Hope I explained it so you can understand and good luck!

Edit: I just realized I don't know how old you puppie is and wether or not she knows "sit" well enough yet. Maybe my advise is too demanding, my girl was 6 months.
Have you tried a harness? Maybe she does not like a lot of action around her head.
Anyway, the best thing to to is probably to let a dog trainer or behaviourist to look at the problem like cazza sais.

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2007, 09:50:31 PM »
Can you give her something to chew like a pigs ear whilst you attach the collar.
You can also do exercises to desensitize the dog to being touched around its neck like you are.
A lot of dogs do not like being touched in this area.
If another dog is trying to assert themselves over the other then the dog may put his chin or paw over the other dogs neck.
Some dogs find this behaviour very threatening
Have you ever tried clicker training?
Mark

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline september

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 08:11:01 AM »
Thanks for all the ideas today is very bad as she was going mad this morning jumping at me and biting when I asked her to sit.  I can't get it on at all  :-\

In reply to some of your questions. She is 13 weeks and can sit very well so that part isn't the problem.

She could be play biting because she never growls while doing it (Am I correct in thinking if its agression she will growl first as a warning??) So I guess she could be being over enthusiastic.

We did used to put it on while she was eating but then she cottoned onto this and stoped eating to get a little bite.

We have not tried clicker training but I had thought about it.  I need to find out more about it though as I don't really know anything.  At the moment I just go from the perfect puppy book.  We also go to puppy classes so I will mention the problem there.  I'm very upset this morning but she has had 10 mins to chill out so I might go and have one more attempt using some of the ideas suggested.

My main question is - How can I tell if its agression or playing??

Offline Clover

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2007, 08:31:00 AM »
Hi, I had the same problem with Willow, she just wasn't having any of it unless I distracted her with a treat on the floor that she had to put her nose down for and quickly put the collar on.  I just wanted to say, hang in there, it will get better I'm sure. There were times, many times, when I was at my wits end with the play biting.  Best of luck. Sarah


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Offline cazza

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2007, 08:38:41 AM »
At 13 weeks I would say alot of it was play biting  ;) and I agree withTopbarks  about desensitizing her too  (I would ask Mark (TopBarks) for more info on this  ;) )

A good all round book is 'The complete idiots guide to positive dog training' by Pamela Dennison  It has crate training, clicker training, how to read your dogs signals and how you can give calming signals to your dog etc and lots more  ;) It's an easy book to read, which most definately helps  ;)

She is needing to chew at this stage in her life as her puppy teeth will be coming out soon - Have you tried giving her ice cubes as this can help the teething (make sure you run under a tap first to take off the freeze burn) also a rag frozen to chew on is good too.

Sorry Know you were on about collars but think this could be part of the reason too  ;) (But you def need to desensitize her too about having her collar area touched ;) )

Offline september

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2007, 08:43:39 AM »
I have watched her very carefully this morning and I think it is more playbiting than anything.  She has a million chewy toy and they are rotated so she has different ones each day, she has special puppy bones to chew which are flexible a big and small rag bone and I give her a frozen Kong as well, when I see the teeth coming out I was going to try some frozen carrots too!!

I think I will get the book mentioned and have a read.

Off to try and get it on again and see if we can go for a walk this morning.

How long do you think its worth trying for until I give up??

Also with reference to something Mark said,  when I try and put it on round her neck she sometimes puts her paw up to my hand??


Offline cazza

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2007, 08:49:29 AM »

Also with reference to something Mark said,  when I try and put it on round her neck she sometimes puts her paw up to my hand??


Sounds to me (but I'm not as experienced as Mark  ;) so he hopefully will correct me if I'm wrong ) but i think she feels the collar as a threat or punishment and this you will have to rectify - my advice (Mark will no doubt be better for this  ;) ) is plenty over the top praise and treats as you are trying to put the collar on  ;) making it a pleasent thing having her collar put on

Offline Clover

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2007, 08:50:05 AM »
Best of luck, don't feel disheartened though, again, it will get better, I have come out the other side, from having a very mouthy pup to having an 8 1/2 month old little gem. Sarah


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Offline Top Barks

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2007, 11:04:18 AM »
It sounds to me as though the mouthing is a response to discomfort of the situation and you are not alone I am working with a stunning black cocker pup who is 16 weeks with the same issue.
If you make it to the York meet we can have a chat.
Dogs will often raise a front paw if they are not happy with what's going on.
Mark

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline september

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2007, 01:54:08 PM »
Thanks for all the advice.  We will hopefully be coming to the York meet!

I have been and bought a new collar that has a clip in type fastener thing rather than a buckle so it will be quicker to put on.

This morning I tried the method of trying to put it on and walking away when she tried to bite.  I had to do this about 10 times but eventually combined with a treat on the floor we got it and the lead on with no bother!

We are also trying to touch her neck and head when we pet and play with her to try and get her used to it.  She doesn't seem to mind being touched there normally just when the collar is going on.

I'll let you know ho we get on in the next week.

Thnaks again to everyone who takes time to post and offer advice, and to Clover for making me feel better becasue its not just me!

Offline crunchie

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Re: Collar trouble
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2007, 02:56:30 PM »
Pringle did a similar thing regarding her harness at about the same age.  She used to go mad when you tried to put it on, really biting and mouthing.  I think in her case she was just really over excited. It was a phase she went through that lasted a couple of months.  She is fine now and sits like a good girl to have it put on.  At the time when she used to play up I used to give her a treat or a favourite toy to try and distract her.  I think it is just something they all go through  :D
Ann and Pringle