Castration or Socialisation Lessons? - Update

[CarolineL]

Hurley regularly seems to get in to trouble with dogs one way or another 

He can vary between being quite dominant and quite submissive, depending on the dog. He seems to be getting more confident and more dominant as he matures.

He quite regularly tries to mount other male dogs, am I right in presuming this is because he is trying to be the dominant one?  If the other dog tells him off, Hurley will give as good as he gets and it usually ends in a little spat.

If another dog tries to mount him he will tell them off and again it usually ends in a little disagreement.

I fully appreciate that this is natural doggy behaviour however more often that not it ends up in a spat between Hurley and the other dog, most of the time I have to pull Hurley away. 

He plays very nicely with most dogs, given the chance and I dont think he tends to start any of the trouble. (but then I could be missing something here). It has got to the point where whatever dog I see I tend to put him on the lead until I have ok'ed it with the other owner to play - this is sensible anyway but I can't do this ALL the time.

From my very limited doggy knowledge I think he can communicate quite well with other dogs, although I have learned that probably having a docked tail doesnt help matters. I also think he can sometimes be quite rude and often tends to bound up to other dogs to have a sniff and say hi. Sometimes he cautiously approaches, sometimes he doesnt, from watching him I think he usually tends to bound up to them when they have their back to him, when he is facing them, that is when he uses the slow steady approach.

Do you think that having him castrated will curb his natural desire to be the more dominant one? Or do you think that he needs better socialisation lessons with dogs who are able to teach him how to communicate 

I know that castration is a personal choice - I guess Im just looking for help in making that decision.

Apologies for long post!

Thanks

Cx

[Helen]

we walk with a castrated working cocker that mounts everything.....   so that may not change with Hurley (but in all honesty I would very likely consider castration if Jarv was acting in this manner)

Maybe his socialisation skills are just a bit backward because of the time he spent out of action with his leg injury/operation?

I would look at a one2one with a behaviourist just to see if his actions aren't borne from any fears or insecurities or if they are just bad manners before committing to the snip

[CarolineL]

we walk with a castrated working cocker that mounts everything.....   so that may not change with Hurley

Oh crikey - I cant even begin to think of the trouble we'd cause if he started mounted everything 

Maybe his socialisation skills are just a bit backward because of the time he spent out of action with his leg injury/operation?

I would look at a one2one with a behaviourist just to see if his actions aren't borne from any fears or insecurities or if they are just bad manners before committing to the snip

I agree with you about the socialisation when he was under house arrest. I think we are going to need more behaviourist advice before I commit further - i know its not a decision to take lightly..... (or cheaply by the sound of things  )

[CarolineL]

Hurley had another fight at the weekend     . He was playing really nicely with a dog - lots of running round, argy bargy but all good fun, one of them took it one step too far and it erupted into a fight (took quiet a while to separate them and I almost got bit a couple of times). Anyway last night - I spoke to the most fabby behaviourist for a long time on the phone last night.   

She really was brill - I explained to her Hurley's behaviour and also a bit on his background, and as we thought she reckons that he missed out on key socialisation and learning of manners while he was under house arrest. As a result we have a hooligan of a dog  who never really learnt how to be polite. He's also learned to fight back rather than just accept a 'telling off/air snap' from another dog because, everytime he fights bacl it works. It all makes sense and was kinda what I'd figured out from posting here in the past and getting advice

Hopefully we're going to do a bit of key socialisation in March and Im going to meet up with her after, she's going to come to my house and we're going on a walk together, where I usually walk so she can watch Hurley, and our interaction with one another. She reckons it will take around 6 months to modify this behaviour and get him to check with me that its ok to go and say hi to other dogs rather than just charge up to them and shove his nose up their bum

[LouiseAS]

I'm sure Hurley will do you proud once he learns the ropes.

Good luck with the behaviourist. 

[CarolineL]

Thanks Louise 

[Helen]

Caroline - he sounds just like the rescue dog next door.  Dillon was appalling with other dogs (you may remember my despair that Jarv and he appeared to hate each other)...Dillon had never learnt to play properly as a puppy, and adult dogs didn't understand him and there was constantly trouble.

He played like a puppy but puppy noises and actions coming out of an adult dog came across as aggressive and threatening to other dogs.

2 years on he is totally transformed - still plays a bit loony, but is a lot more respectful and polite with other dogs.

I'm sure you will get Hurley sorted 

[Cazzie]

I had this problem with Goose and he is castrated so would say that you need to work on his issues rather than opting for the chop at the moment 

[supaspaniel]

this is interesting Caroline. I'm having some problems with Aidee and other dogs, although he doesn't turn things into a fight. Its as though he wants to play and be chased, he goes up to them barking...not really a playful bark tho...but if they stand up to him he's all submissive. He will chase them if they run away though

I dont really want him castrated...but will if I cant stop him doing this. So i'm going to take him to the slightly busier parks in town with my long line, to stop him just tearing off after the dogs, then hopefully control how he approaches the other dogs.
I'm not sure why he is like this, he had contact with several other dogs while I was still with Matt, although a bunch of border collies did scare him once

Anyway I shall be interested to hear how you get on

[CarolineL]

We are hopefully going to have a lesson with someone from another forum and her teaching/police dog, once we see how that goes and his reaction to other dogs and my interaction with him we will see the behaviourist - I am quite looking forward to seeing her as she has worked with Angela Stockdale and her dogs in the past and uses similar methods.

Lisa - I will let you know what she suggests esp with regard to teaching him to check with me it is ok to play. I hope its not long line training though   

I have started to train Hurley to recall to the whistle and the improvement is unbelievable - I think it is because I consistently give him treats when I use this.

[Top Barks]

We are hopefully going to have a lesson with someone from another forum and her teaching/police dog, once we see how that goes and his reaction to other dogs and my interaction with him we will see the behaviourist - I am quite looking forward to seeing her as she has worked with Angela Stockdale and her dogs in the past and uses similar methods.

Lisa - I will let you know what she suggests esp with regard to teaching him to check with me it is ok to play. I hope its not long line training though   

I have started to train Hurley to recall to the whistle and the improvement is unbelievable - I think it is because I consistently give him treats when I use this.

Caroline, make sure the lady your seeing is insured. With agression there is always the potential of it going wrong  and the words Police dog have me worried. Has she been reccomended? does she have references she can supply?
What are her methods?
All questions I would be wanting answers to before seeing an aggression specialist.
Mark

[CarolineL]

Hi Mark

She is one of Penels friends, Laura, and she uses her dog Beama with Angela Stockdale as a policing type dog, not a proper police force dog    

I am going to see Penel and Laura in a couple of weeks for some nice controlled interaction (hopefully!). Im hoping that they can show me how to read Hurley properly. Most of the times he is such a lovely boy and he does want to play, I dont think he ever starts these fights, I just need some help in understanding why they happen.

Do you think this will be ok?!?!

[Top Barks]

Hi Mark

She is one of Penels friends, Laura, and she uses her dog Beama with Angela Stockdale as a policing type dog, not a proper police force dog    

I am going to see Penel and Laura in a couple of weeks for some nice controlled interaction (hopefully!). Im hoping that they can show me how to read Hurley properly. Most of the times he is such a lovely boy and he does want to play, I dont think he ever starts these fights, I just need some help in understanding why they happen.

Do you think this will be ok?!?!

Sorry Caroline, I just had vision of a police dog handler (not to say they are bad). I'm sure penel will not let you get into any bother but I would still want the trainer to be insured if it were me.
Do say Hi to Penel from me when you go.
Mark

[sarahp]

Hi Mark

She is one of Penels friends, Laura, and she uses her dog Beama with Angela Stockdale as a policing type dog, not a proper police force dog    

I am going to see Penel and Laura in a couple of weeks for some nice controlled interaction (hopefully!). Im hoping that they can show me how to read Hurley properly. Most of the times he is such a lovely boy and he does want to play, I dont think he ever starts these fights, I just need some help in understanding why they happen.

Do you think this will be ok?!?!

Mate!!!!  Chill!!!  It will be fine - infact it will be better than fine    When I took Daisy and Dill to see Angela it was Laura's Beama that was used in both of their assessments.  Beama is very gentle in her approach to other dogs, but also does not take any rubbish - if a dog does something 'impolite' Beama will surely tell them  She has a very good 'teacher stare'!!! 

Also Laura has been doing this for so long now that she is able to read situations very quickly and accurately, so if she thinks something may not be going according to plan she is able to quickly intervene and divert any trouble.  Also Penel will be there - and you know how tuned in she is to doggy language.  It was on Penel's recommendation that I took Dais 'n' Dill to see Angela and I'm very glad I did.  I think I have learned more than either of my two herberts - but that is the best part - I now know what is a realistic expectation and understand that some of the situations that my two were getting into was because I wasn't reading things right.

We have much better walks now - much more relaxed as a result of the work I have been doing with Laura and Penel and Angela - so yes - it will be ok!!!

[Cazzie]

Let us know how you get on sound like it will be positive